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Fighting my skates


d4rksabre

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[I posted this thread over on the Goalie Store Forum but it looks like that place is kinda dead. Hoping some of the regulars from there have migrated here?]

Hi all,

I started playing goalie in college about 10 years ago and in that time I've cycled through a handful of skates. I'm struggling right now though and I'll explain. 

When I first started playing it was in a totally trashed pair of Bauer Microns (the ones with the removable liner). They had zero ankle support, were probably a half size too small, but they were stupid comfortable and got me started. I've hung onto them as a novelty.

I replaced them with a used pair of Supreme 7000s. I really liked those skates. Unfortunately I hurt my knee a few too many times and in a fit of insanity sold off all my gear.

A few years ago I got back into playing goalie again and grabbed a pair of Supreme One100's on closeout. I bought 10.5EE's but have suspected that I bought them too big. I cram my foot into 9.5D Supreme player skate now, but I wouldn't want that same fit in a goalie skate.

I picked up a used pair of Bauer Performance skates in a 9.5D and I don't hate the fit (they're probably too small, but I don't like slop), but I have the same general complaint with them that I have with my Supreme One100s: I feel like I'm fighting the skate.

What I mean is that I feel like I can't get "set" when the play is coming at me, or bend my knees as much as I'd like. I always felt like I could get "set" on the balls of my feet in those old Supreme 7000s and I never felt like I was fighting against the skate when I was down in the butterfly trying to hold the post or something. But I fight these One100 and Performance boots even though they're definitely broken in. It's like they don't flex enough front to back and I come out of my games with my ankles hurting from the lack of give. I also feel like it's stopping me from playing as well as I used to.

Has anyone else struggled to adapt to modern skates? Are the Vaughn GX1's something I should look at? Is there something I'm not considering in the fitment of the skate? Should I just stockpile used Supreme 7000s from eBay :P

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It sounds like you have identified the issue and the increased boot stiffness of the new models is your issue. 

I would suggest trying to them as loosely as will allow without getting blisters. If are able to afford them, you could also contact VH and maybe they can customize a softer skate for you. There's also a used pair on here for $250 in size 10. That could be another alternative. You'd need to respond on that thread to findout about the stiffness though. 

@djtendy - Any other feedback on this topic?

 

 

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Check out the CCM Ribcor Skates. Softer boot than the Tacks and all of the Bauer skates.

I had a pair of the One100's as well, loved them. Unfortunately, due to a massive broken big toe on my right foot, Bauer skates don't fit and hurt me. Despite my attempts at rebaking and punching, just can't get them to work for me. CCM's have a wider toe area and the Ribcors have some decent amount of flex to them that it'll probably be right up your alley.

Though, it does take some time to adjust to a hard boot when you're coming from some soft ones. Depending on your age/style/ability to adapt your game to new gear, it can be done relatively quickly.

My first few games in the One100's took some adjustment but I definitely could see the benefits of using a stiff boot. Though, I play a very modern style of goaltending and have good movement down low.

If the Tack's had been released at the time I was replacing my skates, I would have gone that route. But I'm definitely very happy in my Ribcors. (not a CCM/Reebok Plug, it's the only piece of gear from them I own)

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Thanks for the tag @TheGoalNet :)

The above suggestions are all worthy of attempting. Skates are argubably the worst thing to break in gear-wise, and it really doesn't get much easier. Sure, the liners are improved, but if you're used to such a soft skate like the 7000s, there is almost nothing like it nowadays. @coopaloop1234's suggestion of the CCM Ribcor would honestly be the closest thing to a soft "modern" skate. 

From my experience, @TheGoalNet has hit the nail on the head. You're used to a super soft skate and as a result, any increase in stiffness is going to make skating feel completely different. From having something work with you to having a skate work against you is completely backwards. The whole point of a stiff boot is that the boot flexes less and thus you get better energy transfer when you push. Stiffness reduces the flex and it allows for a faster push because the skate is basically not giving at all. I'm sure you are familiar with this, I just figured I'd point it out.

There are a few things I'd suggest, with my experience around skates, and customers transitioning between skates (I work at a hockey store, am not an equipment manager, and this is all anecdotal on my part. You are free to disagree with me at any time).

1) Try loosening off as TGN mentioned. Don't go too loose, but loose enough that you almost retain that feel of freedom within your skates. It may work wonders. I used to always wear my skates loose and didn't find wearing them loose to hinder my performance. But, too loose can obviously be dangerous from an injury perspective. Take some time to play around with the tightness.

2) Do you wear insoles in your skates? Wearing a specific insole, like Superfeet for example, may help. You may be fighting the stiffness of your skate because your foot is not properly supported in the skate and is sloppy. Not a plug for Superfeet at all, but I do know that they work and when fitted properly, alleviate all types of problems. Superfeet work by preventing your feet from elongating and widening out when you step (or, in this case, push, bend your knees, or put pressure on your skate). The elevated heel cup and arch position of Superfeet (the Yellow ones are recommended for skates) could help you out tremendously by supporting your foot and preventing any movement of your foot in the skate, and preventing any of your foot to press uncomfortably against the sides of the skate. Best thing with the Superfeet is that you can wear them in your skates for 60 days, and if you don't like them, you can return them. Again, I'm not a rep for SF by any means, I just know their products work. This is a great potential solution that, if you don't like them, you're not stuck with them by any means.

3) Try a different skate. I hate saying this because you'd have to spend more money on skates and selling skates can be a hassle. VH would be a great starting point, as the skate is completely custom to your foot. With that being said, however, I do know that the skates are fairly stiff, and they cost a pretty penny. I'd try other methods before dishing out $800 (not sure if it's less or more, I'm Canadian so I have no clue about conversion rate for them) for a custom pair of skates. the Vaughn skates, from what I've heard, fit and feel much like a Graf skate, which are known for their comfort, rather than performance properties. If you can find a used pair of Grafs or Vaughns to try, I'd give them a go. If you like the Supreme 7000s, there is nothing wrong with stocking up. I'd buy a few replacement, modern Bauer cowlings (modern meaning Total One/Performance/Pro/Reactor era) and do a few cowling swaps so that you aren't bogged down with heavy cowlings. Also, replacement 7000 era cowlings are tougher than "modern" era cowlings to find. 

I may not have all the answers by any means, and I'm sure others will chime in too. Hopefully these solutions can help.

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On 7/18/2017 at 1:59 PM, TheGoalNet said:

It sounds like you have identified the issue and the increased boot stiffness of the new models is your issue. 

I would suggest trying to them as loosely as will allow without getting blisters. If are able to afford them, you could also contact VH and maybe they can customize a softer skate for you. There's also a used pair on here for $250 in size 10. That could be another alternative. You'd need to respond on that thread to findout about the stiffness though. 

@djtendy - Any other feedback on this topic?

 

 

I've messed around with looser lacing but I can't say it helps. I wish I could afford the VHs. I want to get to a shop that fits them so I can see what they are like. I'm in Buffalo so a trip up to Toronto is easy for me.

On 7/18/2017 at 2:28 PM, coopaloop1234 said:

Check out the CCM Ribcor Skates. Softer boot than the Tacks and all of the Bauer skates.

I had a pair of the One100's as well, loved them. Unfortunately, due to a massive broken big toe on my right foot, Bauer skates don't fit and hurt me. Despite my attempts at rebaking and punching, just can't get them to work for me. CCM's have a wider toe area and the Ribcors have some decent amount of flex to them that it'll probably be right up your alley.

Though, it does take some time to adjust to a hard boot when you're coming from some soft ones. Depending on your age/style/ability to adapt your game to new gear, it can be done relatively quickly.

My first few games in the One100's took some adjustment but I definitely could see the benefits of using a stiff boot. Though, I play a very modern style of goaltending and have good movement down low.

If the Tack's had been released at the time I was replacing my skates, I would have gone that route. But I'm definitely very happy in my Ribcors. (not a CCM/Reebok Plug, it's the only piece of gear from them I own)

I want to check out the Ribcor, especially given the re-design. I've never been a big fan of CCM's blade system, but at this point I'm more worried about getting the right boot. Problem is that most shops around here stock very little in the line of CCM/Reebok goalie skates. It's all Bauer, which to be honest, I am tired of haha
I like the stiffness of my One100s for what they do provide in performance and support. But I think I'd prefer a taller boot that was less stiff. I think it's a comfort thing.  

On 7/18/2017 at 3:00 PM, djtendy said:

Thanks for the tag @TheGoalNet :)

The above suggestions are all worthy of attempting. Skates are argubably the worst thing to break in gear-wise, and it really doesn't get much easier. Sure, the liners are improved, but if you're used to such a soft skate like the 7000s, there is almost nothing like it nowadays. @coopaloop1234's suggestion of the CCM Ribcor would honestly be the closest thing to a soft "modern" skate. 

From my experience, @TheGoalNet has hit the nail on the head. You're used to a super soft skate and as a result, any increase in stiffness is going to make skating feel completely different. From having something work with you to having a skate work against you is completely backwards. The whole point of a stiff boot is that the boot flexes less and thus you get better energy transfer when you push. Stiffness reduces the flex and it allows for a faster push because the skate is basically not giving at all. I'm sure you are familiar with this, I just figured I'd point it out.

There are a few things I'd suggest, with my experience around skates, and customers transitioning between skates (I work at a hockey store, am not an equipment manager, and this is all anecdotal on my part. You are free to disagree with me at any time).

1) Try loosening off as TGN mentioned. Don't go too loose, but loose enough that you almost retain that feel of freedom within your skates. It may work wonders. I used to always wear my skates loose and didn't find wearing them loose to hinder my performance. But, too loose can obviously be dangerous from an injury perspective. Take some time to play around with the tightness.

2) Do you wear insoles in your skates? Wearing a specific insole, like Superfeet for example, may help. You may be fighting the stiffness of your skate because your foot is not properly supported in the skate and is sloppy. Not a plug for Superfeet at all, but I do know that they work and when fitted properly, alleviate all types of problems. Superfeet work by preventing your feet from elongating and widening out when you step (or, in this case, push, bend your knees, or put pressure on your skate). The elevated heel cup and arch position of Superfeet (the Yellow ones are recommended for skates) could help you out tremendously by supporting your foot and preventing any movement of your foot in the skate, and preventing any of your foot to press uncomfortably against the sides of the skate. Best thing with the Superfeet is that you can wear them in your skates for 60 days, and if you don't like them, you can return them. Again, I'm not a rep for SF by any means, I just know their products work. This is a great potential solution that, if you don't like them, you're not stuck with them by any means.

3) Try a different skate. I hate saying this because you'd have to spend more money on skates and selling skates can be a hassle. VH would be a great starting point, as the skate is completely custom to your foot. With that being said, however, I do know that the skates are fairly stiff, and they cost a pretty penny. I'd try other methods before dishing out $800 (not sure if it's less or more, I'm Canadian so I have no clue about conversion rate for them) for a custom pair of skates. the Vaughn skates, from what I've heard, fit and feel much like a Graf skate, which are known for their comfort, rather than performance properties. If you can find a used pair of Grafs or Vaughns to try, I'd give them a go. If you like the Supreme 7000s, there is nothing wrong with stocking up. I'd buy a few replacement, modern Bauer cowlings (modern meaning Total One/Performance/Pro/Reactor era) and do a few cowling swaps so that you aren't bogged down with heavy cowlings. Also, replacement 7000 era cowlings are tougher than "modern" era cowlings to find. 

I may not have all the answers by any means, and I'm sure others will chime in too. Hopefully these solutions can help.

1. I've messed around with loosening the skates, but I think I was already wearing them as loose as I could get away with. Any looser and I think I'd be terrified of breaking my ankle when I'm moving around behind the net and stuff. 
2. I adopted the Superfeet Yellows when I bought my new Bauer player skates and I will never go back to anything else. They're great and I love them. I pronate a bit, so the superfeet help me from leaning so much on my inside edges (and putting pressure on the outside of my ankles against the boot). My control and comfort is better for sure. 
3. I'm thinking I might buy a pair of the Supreme 7000s just to see if I still like them as much as I used to. At the very least it would give me another point of comparison when I go into the store to try modern skates on. The Vaughns have also gotten so cheap that I feel like they're worth the shot in the dark. 

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46 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

Loved my Vaughn GX-1; HATED the GX2. My GX-1 was blowing up on me; but they may do you fine.

They definitely feel like throwback boots to me.

What exactly was blowing up on the GX1, and how long did it take to get there? 

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Also Bauer offers custom skates too. I have 2 pairs both through The Goalie Crease in Toronto. With Bauer custom skates you can get a boot stiffness from 1 to 5 with 5 being very very stiff, a 3 is the normal Bauer stiffness.

Bauer has been doing custom skates for years and the options for fitting is very very large.

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13 minutes ago, Snowman30 said:

Also Bauer offers custom skates too. I have 2 pairs both through The Goalie Crease in Toronto. With Bauer custom skates you can get a boot stiffness from 1 to 5 with 5 being very very stiff, a 3 is the normal Bauer stiffness.

Bauer has been doing custom skates for years and the options for fitting is very very large.

What are we talking price wise for custom goal skates?

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Went to my local shop and played around with some skates tonight. My buddy who I trust suggested I take a look at the Tacks. I tried the 4092 and 6092, then tried the Supremes and the Reactors (again), and definitely preferred the Tacks. It seems my foot sits deeper in the Tacks which takes that strain off of my instep. The 6092 didn't seem nearly as stiff as my One100s either. I didn't feel like I was fighting them.

Maybe I've got a winner in the Tacks. They were as good as I've tried in a while. 

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One other thought - have you considered profiling the steel?  Sounds like maybe a pitch issue, could be the height of the cowling compared to what you're used to?  No Incing Sports does a great job of taking your feedback and contouring the steel to how you like it.  They offer fast service via mail too.  

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13 minutes ago, sebastiancp1 said:

One other thought - have you considered profiling the steel?  Sounds like maybe a pitch issue, could be the height of the cowling compared to what you're used to?  No Incing Sports does a great job of taking your feedback and contouring the steel to how you like it.  They offer fast service via mail too.  

I've often wondered if that was part of my issue as well. Perhaps the blades on my old 7000s were shorter or profiled differently? I had no idea Icing Sports existed or that I could get my blades profiled by mail. That's a cool service. 

It's possible my issue could be two fold: 1. Wrong boot, and 2. Blade profile that doesn't fit my style. 

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Sounds like you might be over-tightening your laces around the ankle which keeps you from getting a good knee bend.  The newer Bauer's are somewhat stiff and come up fairly high on the ankle, compared to some others I've tried.  I actually like this because it allows me to loosen my laces a bit without sacrificing support, I'll even come down an eyelet or two, which allows me to get that forward lean and aggressive stance.  Sometimes when transitioning to the newer, much stiffer skates from an older style, guys will naturally lace the boot the same way.  This is typically where the problems start because a stiffer boot does not have to be laced nearly as tight.

Also, keep in mind that EE will fit slightly larger in the same size as a D skate, so the fit may be a little off as well when going from standard to wide skate.  For example, a 9EE will fit like a 9.5D in terms of length.  Keep in mind too that most Bauer skates  are known for having a neutral pitch, so you will generally be flat-footed as opposed to being on the balls of your feet.  You can get this adjusted by profiling, shimming, etc...  as others have said.

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19 minutes ago, jayluv54 said:

Sounds like you might be over-tightening your laces around the ankle which keeps you from getting a good knee bend.  The newer Bauer's are somewhat stiff and come up fairly high on the ankle, compared to some others I've tried.  I actually like this because it allows me to loosen my laces a bit without sacrificing support, I'll even come down an eyelet or two, which allows me to get that forward lean and aggressive stance.  Sometimes when transitioning to the newer, much stiffer skates from an older style, guys will naturally lace the boot the same way.  This is typically where the problems start because a stiffer boot does not have to be laced nearly as tight.

Also, keep in mind that EE will fit slightly larger in the same size as a D skate, so the fit may be a little off as well when going from standard to wide skate.  For example, a 9EE will fit like a 9.5D in terms of length.  Keep in mind too that most Bauer skates  are known for having a neutral pitch, so you will generally be flat-footed as opposed to being on the balls of your feet.  You can get this adjusted by profiling, shimming, etc...  as others have said.

Yeah, that 10.5EE that I'm wearing in the One100s is way too big. I have no doubt I'm over tightening to compensate for slop. That's why I grabbed that pair of 9.5D Performance skates to compare. The fit of the 9.5D is definitely better around the foot, but unfortunately I'm still fighting the skates even when laced a little looser or ditching the top eyelet. 

Trying the Tacks on yesterday (in a 10D) was a notable difference. The length felt good, the width felt good, and my foot felt like it was deeper in the boot so I wasn't fighting those 2-5 position eyelets. I think the Bauers are trying to flex where my instep is but they can't because I'm already too into the tongue. The Tacks felt like they would break in better and flex a little more where I want them to. 

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Good, I hope the Tacks work for you.  I've always been torn between fit and performance and find I can only skate well in Bauer skates at the sacrifice of comfort.  I have issues with the instep as well and even when I skate out I have problems with arch pain.  I used to use Reeboks and Graf's as they were the most comfortable skates for my foot in both goalie and player skates and gave me no issues with pain, but my skating suffered.  No matter how long I tried to adjust, I just can't skate as well in anything but a Bauer skate.  Probably a huge mental block, but just can't get over it.

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