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redrook

Glove break in wrong place, can I fix?

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So I've been having issues with my CCM P2.9 glove and finally figured out that the break is in the wrong place (about half inch in thumb direction than it should be) making it hard to close. I'm told this is called a wavy palm? Is there any way to fix this or is it new glove time. It's only a season old so it would be nice to sort it 

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There's some info and discussion of altering the physical break in this video at time 6:45, you can check this out

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On 11/27/2019 at 5:10 PM, seagoal said:

There's some info and discussion of altering the physical break in this video at time 6:45, you can check this out

Thanks that's interesting, his glove closes so well there. Mine is stiff as F**k despite having a year of use but the "hinge" is in the wrong place so it's just so hard to close. I try other people's gloves and they flap like a bird, mine just doesn't and my glove hand has really suffered save-wise since buying this glove. I used to be able to flash the leather no problem, but this glove just couldn't catch a cold.

I'll try cooking it as he mentions and wrapping it tight on a stick handle.

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47 minutes ago, redrook said:

Thanks that's interesting, his glove closes so well there. Mine is stiff as F**k despite having a year of use but the "hinge" is in the wrong place so it's just so hard to close. I try other people's gloves and they flap like a bird, mine just doesn't and my glove hand has really suffered save-wise since buying this glove. I used to be able to flash the leather no problem, but this glove just couldn't catch a cold.

I'll try cooking it as he mentions and wrapping it tight on a stick handle.

Can you post some pictures of what you mean that the break is in the wrong place?

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out of all methods i have tried, this one works the best. while it’s hot try molding it to the shape you want for a few minutes then close it where you want it and place a weight as said in the video. however near the end where he says to place a weight while it’s open i find unnecessary. you might have to repeat this process again to get it to fully close

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@redrook I've got the same issue with my glove as you mentioned.  So my glove closes fine but the top of the T are offset when I close which makes me think I made the break in the wrong place.  And in reference to wavy palm, I fell like the crease in my palm is wavy if that makes any sense.  I'll try to post some pictures when I get home from work.

I'm not sure if my glove can be fixed either.  I'm hoping so as I love it but I can't pick up a puck off the ice to save my life because of the two sides of the T not closing together.  

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*Disclaimer: I am not in any way, shape or form an equipment guru. I have, however, been repairing my equipment since I started playing in goal as a kid for reasons of curiosity and economy. I've taken apart and reconstructed more pads, blockers, gloves, C/As, etc. than I care to remember. As a result, I have made a handful of observations that I believe are pertinent to this discussion*

Before I go on to why I believe this is happening, I also suggest putting a puck or a stick or something in the base of the palm and wrap tightly. Some gentle heat will move things along quicker, but you should see lasting results in 2-3 days without any heat. I have always experienced a positive outcome with this method. 

- - - 

The migrating break/crease on a glove is very common, regardless of the price point. Most goalies either do not care or do not realize that some form of break migration is happening with their glove(s). Usually what I find is that the glove has broken down or malformed due to the relationship between the 'finger' plastic and the 'thumb' plastic creating a second crease in the break. This finger-portion plastic, along with the felt, foams and/or additional plastic attached to the finger-portion plastic, may or may not allow for a wave, bulge or belly along the crease of the break as seen in this photo that I lifted from InGoalMagazine.com (https://ingoalmag.com/gear/ccm-extreme-flex-3-glove-bigger-deeper-double-t-pocket/) : 

DSC_0009-1024x589.thumb.jpg.428ca25c47c33f40cee9f4efc98fd3c4.jpg

It looks like CCM attempted to mitigate this by creating more of recess in the break (EFlex 3 glove on the left). This was not a feature of 590-break gloves that I have owned in the past, nor is it a feature of the EF2 glove in the photo above. Also, it should be noted that the EF3 break is wider overall and extends further down to the palm (orange arrows on each). Also, it appears that the crease of the break on the EF2 glove is breaking down (orange lines)

I'm not here to ruffle anyone's feathers, but the lack of little feature is what has distinguished Lefevre-designed gloves from almost every other glove. Vaughn and Brian's, for example, have (for a very long time) done one or more of the following:

  • Used a wider, reinforced 'thumb plastic-to-finger plastic' gap -> (Brian's Sub Zero)brians-sub-zero.thumb.jpg.d6d7d65e43e1ce1070bd7b5d4fd9b6f6.jpg
  • Used a mid-break laced portion in this area -> (Vaughn T5500)5500.thumb.jpg.98aee0dd8208658bb7d6c0f37343dbfc.jpg
  • Used a fully laced break -> (Brian's Optik 2 & Vaughn 7700)Brians-Optik-2.thumb.png.48a3992e9451877e2b1d574331bd1492.png972860730_V7700.jpg.459f4089f294011ca8e009ecbbb4fafa.jpg

My theory is that, regardless of the manufacturer, break migration may be inevitable depending on the relationship between how you subconsciously close your catching hand and the design of the glove. The best example of this relationship that I have found is this Warrior Removable Liner graphic:

warrior-goalie-accessories-ritual-g2-glo

Warrior is actually conceding a lot about how any glove, not just their own, will eventually break in and break down. Initially, the newness and tightness of the materials (and the position of the finger or palm break) will have an influence on how the glove breaks in and how your hand closes around the catching area. A glove is the passive mechanical device, the hand inside is the active device, so... As certain areas of the glove break down, the glove becomes more 'influenced' by how you close your hand -- which may not be exactly how the glove was designed to 'break'.

My experience with gloves has been that the more a glove is like a baseball/45*/60*/590/600 index-to-thumb tip break angle, the more the break of the glove will vary as the glove breaks down. This, in my opinion, is why the Vaughn 5500-style glove (and most Vaughn gloves) has been viewed as a moving target for many goalies over many, many years - no two ever seem alike because no two goalies ever break their 5500-style glove in the same exact way.

Try individually closing each finger to your thumb tip - it's almost as easy to close your index-to-thumb as it is your pinky-to-thumb. Now do the same thing 1000 times in a glove and see how it breaks in and breaks down. Conversely, the fingers-to-palm closure, which I would broadly categorize as 75-90*/580/Vaughn V1/most Brian's gloves, appear to break far more consistently across the palm and do not suffer the same fate. Try closing all four fingers to your palm. Notice your thumb is largely stationary; it isn't squeezing into your fingers as it would if you were closing fingers-to-thumb tip. Also notice that you will not have the same articulation (and therefore the variation) in how your fingers close towards your palm. Look at the 5500 photo above and ask yourself, "Where's the break?" Exactly. It's user-defined. The same can largely be said for 590 gloves I've owned. I gonna make the assumption that a 600 is likely similar in fate because it is even more '5500' like than a 590 glove. Again, this has been my experience.

This is just something that I believe we all have to work with. It may simply be a sign that the glove you're using is kinda working against the natural way your hand closes when you catch a puck. I'm not approaching whether this means one glove design is better than another. 

Edited by dualshowman
Clarity
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Just to follow up on this, I put the glove in the oven for a few mins, then put a stick handle in the glove and forced it to curve in the correct place, and strapped it up. Did this repeatedly. Then soaked it and strapped it up again. It is now breaking perfectly as it should.

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Thanks for keeping this thread going. You have my full attention. Haha. 
 

With all this free time, I’m definitely interested in repairing the break in my glove. My biggest issue as I mentioned is that the T closer is so offset. I’d like them to close together so I could pick up a puck off the ice or hold my stick in the Turco grip properly. @dualshowman thanks for all this insightful info. 

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2 hours ago, Deltadre said:

Thanks for keeping this thread going. You have my full attention. Haha. 
 

With all this free time, I’m definitely interested in repairing the break in my glove. My biggest issue as I mentioned is that the T closer is so offset. I’d like them to close together so I could pick up a puck off the ice or hold my stick in the Turco grip properly. @dualshowman thanks for all this insightful info. 

Post photos. I'd like to see what you're referring to.

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1 hour ago, Deltadre said:

@dualshowman  sure thing. Here you go. 

54FD9A21-3C72-4367-B1A6-4FDCED355574.jpeg

1BBA5088-3EE0-4357-ABA0-E1D28E6E58B9.jpeg

E7BD70B2-C4B6-4BDC-A038-FA28CA458683.jpeg

B75CC24D-D091-4328-BC20-FB03317D813D.jpeg

Looks like the total one or one90?

I had a one90 for a little while And I couldn’t pick the puck off of the ground with it at all... it was super annoying 

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On 4/3/2020 at 5:34 PM, Isles12 said:

Looks like the total one or one90?

I had a one90 for a little while And I couldn’t pick the puck off of the ground with it at all... it was super annoying 

Yeah it’s a one90 and like yourself I ce been having a hell of a time trying to pick up the puck. I honestly thought it was me until I figured out that T looks like the pics above. Basically I’m just pushing the puck because my T doesn’t wrap around the puck to pick it up. I broke it in and love using it but this issue is making second guess if I can fix it or should I get a new glove. 

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Yeah, I think it’s partially the design of the one90/total one gloves that causes that problem. They have a bit of an awkward shape the fingers curl towards the palm more than other gloves I’ve used. Wish I still had it I’d take a comparison photo with my one75 and rx9...

Other than that it’s a decent glove. I just used my stick to flip the puck into my glove If I wanted to pick it up lol

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I did what this guy describes, I also had that slight bulge that stopped clean closing. My glove now closes perfectly.

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41 minutes ago, redrook said:

I did what this guy describes, I also had that slight bulge that stopped clean closing. My glove now closes perfectly.

Did you have any issues with your T looking like mine?

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Posted (edited)

@Deltadre The way that T closes is brutal. I find it unacceptable that a modern glove would have such a poorly closing T. Without having it here in front of me, I would hesitate to offer a fix.

Also, it looks like the palm of your glove is beginning to buldge. It isn't a problem if it isn't a hinderance.

Edited by dualshowman

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1 hour ago, dualshowman said:

@Deltadre The way that T closes is brutal. I find it unacceptable that a modern glove would have such a poorly closing T. Without having it here in front of me, I would hesitate to offer a fix.

Also, it looks like the palm of your glove is beginning to buldge. It isn't a problem if it isn't a hinderance.

Yeah at this point, I’m trying to decide if I should keep it or replace it. Convincing my wife that a new glove is needed won’t be easy...haha

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Deltadre said:

Did you have any issues with your T looking like mine?

Not that I recall, but if you look at your glove I don't think the problem isn't the T itself, the issue starts further back because your glove is closing over too far. At least that's what it looks like. I would suggest your break is in the wrong place, and needs to be further forward - red line is your current break, green line is where it needs to be imo. This was the issue with my glove too, can't remember what the T was like as it's sorted now.

B75CC24D-D091-4328-BC20-FB03317D813D.thumb.jpeg.242a92650edf5da69fb7047d57ea02e3.jpeg

Edited by redrook

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23 hours ago, redrook said:

Not that I recall, but if you look at your glove I don't think the problem isn't the T itself, the issue starts further back because your glove is closing over too far. At least that's what it looks like. I would suggest your break is in the wrong place, and needs to be further forward - red line is your current break, green line is where it needs to be imo. This was the issue with my glove too, can't remember what the T was like as it's sorted now.

B75CC24D-D091-4328-BC20-FB03317D813D.thumb.jpeg.242a92650edf5da69fb7047d57ea02e3.jpeg

Thanks for the suggestion. I’m going to try to get my break one the green line as you suggested and see what happens. 

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17 hours ago, Deltadre said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I’m going to try to get my break one the green line as you suggested and see what happens. 

Definitely worth a shot before buying a new glove - check out the video with the CCM glove I posted earlier for a good method. I baked it in my oven for a few mins at 80 degrees celsius, then bend at desired brake, put a stick in there to wrap it around and strapped it up with a belt. Did this a few times, then soaked it, and wrapped it up again. Eventually got it perfect.

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I think that I have a similar issue with the break on my glove. I’ve never noticed any issues with it and have had no problems with picking up a puck either. Is this something worth trying to fix while we aren’t playing or should i just let it go since it hasn’t caused any problems?

769017CE-104B-4504-B78F-375118A0F52F.thumb.jpeg.95a0f7d50fe24be1457439af38ba90db.jpegB6550346-6646-40E3-880D-D0FF9BF81C7F.thumb.jpeg.9d1e4baf6737dca434c387daff71b24b.jpeg

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*My previous disclaimer about not being any sort of equipment guru withstanding*

@mikemc620 How well does this glove fit your hand: Loose, tight, something else? When you close the glove, does it feel more like you're curling your fingers or does it feel more like your doing a one-handed clap? Is there another glove or another analogy you can compare this to?

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3 hours ago, dualshowman said:

*My previous disclaimer about not being any sort of equipment guru withstanding*

@mikemc620 How well does this glove fit your hand: Loose, tight, something else? When you close the glove, does it feel more like you're curling your fingers or does it feel more like your doing a one-handed clap? Is there another glove or another analogy you can compare this to?

It fits pretty snugly on my hand. I guess with me playing around with it now it feels like it closes differently based on how much I tuck my fingers into the glove.  It closes a little bit better for me when I don’t have my fingers pushed all the way into the glove. 
 

 It’s supposed to be a 60 degree break on this glove from what I’ve seen. 

A6F92F18-9A27-4402-B85B-3B98F733017F.thumb.jpeg.d1ed4e1304dfcf10f1e233cc1dd66b5f.jpeg
 

DC7A632D-14F9-41F1-974E-9DF2AC245F5B.thumb.jpeg.d51097d15e9e9dadbc9b458f8e9a641b.jpeg

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