Thomas Greiss: CANCELLED by Team Germany

[estogoalie]

The German Ice Hockey Federation (DEB) are officially "cancelling" Greiss by cutting ties with him and not taking him to play in the upcoming IIHF world championships, due to his conservative political beliefs. Sorry could only find it in German, run it thru a translator:

https://www.20min.ch/story/hitler-likes-trump-fan-deutschland-schmeisst-nhl-star-greiss-raus-413887629051

It didn't cite anything new or horrible, just that he likes Trump, compared Hillary to Hitler 4 years ago, and mentioned some posts and likes he made on Instagram (didn't say what exactly tho).

Anyway, Greiss was just the NHL star of the week, and German hockey fans are left confused why their top goalie is being cut for speaking his mind.

#FreeGreiss

[coopaloop1234]

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.20min.ch%2Fstory%2Fhitler-likes-trump-fan-deutschland-schmeisst-nhl-star-greiss-raus-413887629051

Translated page for all of us mono-linguals.

[Chenner29]

Just a reminder, please keep discussion on this topic to the player and team...no politics

[CJ Boiss]

The topic is inherently political: a player being cut from a team for political things they've said. And Germany has specific laws which regulate speech vis a vis the Nazis and... just everything about them.

Pure speculation, but I suspect that this has more to do with his Hitler comments than anything else. Apparently, he also used the SS logo on his Coyotes mask? Which... just... yikes man.

[estogoalie]

9 minutes ago, Chenner29 said:

Just a reminder, please keep discussion on this topic to the player and team...no politics

Ok, but then it's kind of hard to discuss since he got cut from the team for political reasons

[WillyGrips13]

He had mask art that appeared to include the Nazi SS insignia. Might be an unfortunate visual coincidence. But paired with the other stuff, not a good look. People are entitled to believe whatever ideology they want, but entities such as employers can act accordingly in response.

[estogoalie]

1 minute ago, CJ Boiss said:

 Apparently, he also used the SS logo on his Coyotes mask? Which... just... yikes man.

Can't say for sure. It was a flame-themed mask, and the scrawled letters could be seen like that, if that's what you're looking for. It's not like there was Hitler and swastikas on the mask. There's Bigfoot, flames and cactuses (cacti?).

[coopaloop1234]

4 minutes ago, WillyGrips13 said:

He had mask art that appeared to include the Nazi SS insignia. Might be an unfortunate visual coincidence. But paired with the other stuff, not a good look. People are entitled to believe whatever ideology they want, but entities such as employers can act accordingly in response.

It's got to be the accumulation of everything and not just a single particular instance. This mask is from 2013-2014, so it would be a weird thing to solely point to as for their reasoning.

 

[CJ Boiss]

4 minutes ago, estogoalie said:

Can't say for sure. It was a flame-themed mask, and the scrawled letters could be seen like that, if that's what you're looking for. It's not like there was Hitler and swastikas on the mask. There's Bigfoot, flames and cactuses (cacti?).

Have you ever got a mask painted and not been very specific about every element on it? The S's don't even match the rest of the font. They were clearly SS bolts, which is absolutely equivalent to a swastika or scrawling Hitler's name on there somewhere. Greiss grew up in Germany, dude knew exactly what he was doing with that.

[WillyGrips13]

Just now, coopaloop1234 said:

It's got to be the accumulation of everything and not just a single particular instance. This mask is from 2013-2014, so it would be a weird thing to solely point to as for their reasoning.

 

Yeah, from the stories I just looked at (I had no idea about any of this before), it seems as though he’s irked them over time. 
If this is all a big misunderstanding, Griess would be best served getting out in front of it and making clear he is not a Nazi sympathizer. And if he is a Nazi sympathizer, well he can go F himself. 

[estogoalie]

2 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

Have you ever got a mask painted and not been very specific about every element on it? The S's don't even match the rest of the font. They were clearly SS bolts, which is absolutely equivalent to a swastika or scrawling Hitler's name on there somewhere. Greiss grew up in Germany, dude knew exactly what he was doing with that.

Your right. We need to cancel KISS too, their fonts don't match either

 

[CJ Boiss]

14 minutes ago, estogoalie said:

Your right. We need to cancel KISS too, their fonts don't match either

 

Why are you defending Greiss putting SS bolts on a mask? Guy doesnt need a Devil's advocate

[coopaloop1234]

On 5/4/2021 at 5:06 PM, CJ Boiss said:

Have you ever got a mask painted and not been very specific about every element on it? The S's don't even match the rest of the font. They were clearly SS bolts, which is absolutely equivalent to a swastika or scrawling Hitler's name on there somewhere. Greiss grew up in Germany, dude knew exactly what he was doing with that.

I don't know man. I definitely see what you're saying, but it's not like it's comic sans and time new roman.

He had this mask for a single year and the rest of his masks that have carried his name on the front (which have been many) have all had the same font. Could it be his way of sneaking in a SS symbol for a single year? Maybe, but I do believe that it was more likely a design choice that in retrospect looks poorly.

The other items for their reasoning I'm game for, but I still don't fully buy in on the hidden SS symbol on the mask. Feels like a reach to me.

[CJ Boiss]

1 minute ago, coopaloop1234 said:

I don't know man. I definitely see what you're saying, but it's not like it's comic sans and time new roman.

He had this mask for a single year and the rest of his masks that have carried his name on the front (which have been many) have all had the same font. Could it be his way of sneaking in a SS symbol for a single year? Maybe, but I do believe that it was more likely a design choice that in retrospect looks poorly.

The other items for their reasoning I'm game for, but I still don't fully buy in on the hidden SS symbol on the mask. Feels like a reach to me.

 

German education vis a vis WWII and the Nazis is significantly different than anywhere else in the world. There is no chance he made a mistake by including S's that looked similar to SS bolts without realizing it.

[coopaloop1234]

2 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

German education vis a vis WWII and the Nazis is significantly different than anywhere else in the world. There is no chance he made a mistake by including S's that looked similar to SS bolts without realizing it.

/shrug

You may be on the money but the best we can do is speculate.

 

[estogoalie]

17 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

Why are you defending Greiss putting SS bolts on a mask? Guy doesnt need a Devil's advocate

What I'm saying is that it's not clear. And if it's not clear, it doesn't really make any kind of statement. I'd guess 99.99% of the people who saw his mask in 2014 saw nothing but flames and Bigfoot.

[estogoalie]

21 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

German education vis a vis WWII and the Nazis is significantly different than anywhere else in the world. There is no chance he made a mistake by including S's that looked similar to SS bolts without realizing it.

You're making alot of assumptions there. You'd really have to talk to Greiss and the painter.

 

46 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

Have you ever got a mask painted and not been very specific about every element on it?

Beer league goalies do, but I'm not so sure about the big league guys. They move teams often and are focused on their play. I don't know if they obsess over every little mask detail like we do. Alot of times they just have a rough idea and leave the details to the painter.

[Chenner29]

5 hours ago, estogoalie said:

Ok, but then it's kind of hard to discuss since he got cut from the team for political reasons

I understand... but political threads frequently go off the rails, and this is a website for discussing hockey, goalies, and gear.

[dualshowman]

8 hours ago, estogoalie said:

Your right. We need to cancel KISS too, their fonts don't match either

KISS was required to change their logo for the German market specifically due to the stylized 'SS'. 

From what I understand, the German government is (rightfully) sensitive about citizens making any positive or sympathetic reference to Nazi insignia, let alone ideology. The lightning bolt 'SS' is absolutely a known Nazi insignia in Germany. I would bet you'd be hard pressed to find any German citizen over the age of eight that isn't aware of this. Greiss is a German citizen. 2+2 = 4. 

[estogoalie]

The mask was from 7 years ago, he's played with the German team every year since then, and he seems to check his mask fonts more carefully now, since there's been no more cases since. It seemed to be water under the bridge.

But moving on from that, the article mentioned reasons for the cut was mainly his comments on US politics and social media posts, didn't mention anything about any Nazi sympathies, aside from comparing Hillary to Hitler, which I assume was meant as an insult....and then logically speaking, if he was a Nazi sympathizer, why would he compare someone he despises to Hitler (?)

Unless there's something more to it then the article states, if their reasons for cutting him are just from him expressing his political beliefs, then it's a very sad day for the DEB.

[Puckstopper]

15 hours ago, CJ Boiss said:

Why are you defending Greiss putting SS bolts on a mask? Guy doesnt need a Devil's advocate

Hang on now, we're saying he's a Nazi, but he compared Hillary to Hitler?  He's a conservative, but compared the liberal candidate for president (who I'm guessing he DOESN'T like, given that he supported Trump) to the leader of the movement he supposedly subscribes to?  Something doesn't track here.

Sometimes you've just got to go with the most simple explanation: 

• Dude was in Phoenix for 1 year. 
• He's been getting custom masks for at least 7 years prior (dating back to his AHL days) and probably much longer.
• I'm inclined to believe he just didn't care that much and didn't examine every little detail.  

As far as the "He's from Germany, he should know better" argument, I agree 100%.  I'm of German (and Scottish) descent, learned German in school with the intent of traveling there, and have friends from Germany.   The time that led to Hitler's ascent to power is a subject that's very difficult for many in Germany to talk about, for a number of reasons beyond simply what happened under Hitler.  There's a ton of shame around allowing the atrocities, a powerful desire to ensure that something like that can never happen again, and yes a tiny, but outspoken movement that still supports it.  Kind of like the KKK here in the USA, the odds are very good that the average German has never met a true neo-Nazi, just like most of us probably don't know a Klansman.  Unfortunately, the voices of these groups get amplified far beyond their numbers due to how outrageous and disturbing their messages are.   So yes, he SHOULD know better.  However, don't discount the ignorance people can be capable of.  I'm constantly stunned at the number of people I talk to who don't know the difference between Thomas Jefferson and Abe Lincoln or George Washington and George Washington Carver.  Hell, I've met people who thought George Clinton was president.   I love history, but have come to the realization that a large portion of the population could care less!

Given all of that, the fact that those condemning the guy have exactly ONE piece of "evidence", and as others have mentioned there's been no "hidden Nazi imagery" in any of his masks since, I have to say that an error is more likely than the guy being a closet Nazi.

 

[CJ Boiss]

1 hour ago, Puckstopper said:

Hang on now, we're saying he's a Nazi,

I never said he was a Nazi, kindly don't put words in my mouth.

[Puckstopper]

11 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

I never said he was a Nazi, kindly don't put words in my mouth.

Strongly implied it then.   I want to be polite, but please don't be obtuse.   You stated, and I quote, "There is no chance he made a mistake by including S's that looked similar to SS bolts without realizing it."  Following the thread of your argument you painted someone you don't know as a terrible human being without any acknowledgement of the possibility of an error, oversight, etc.. on their part.   I agree with you on the education of the German people as a whole on the subject, but refuse to rule out human error.

I genuinely believe that history will look back at the way we have communicated and interacted (as a species, not CJ and I) over the last 10 years or so and shake it's head.   It very much feels like the obverse of the McCarthy witch hunts of the early 50's.  People who don't toe the accepted line quickly and vocally are demonized, stigmatized and in extreme cases pushed out of their jobs.   It was wrong when conservatives did it 70 years ago and its equally wrong (or moreso, because we should have learned better dammit!) for liberals to do it now.

[CJ Boiss]

Just now, Puckstopper said:

Strongly implied it then.

Again, you're making an incorrect assumption, because I make a distinction between Nazis of the 1945 era and the modern alt-right.

As to your "how can he think Clinton is Hitler but also support Hitler's movement?" question, there are wrong-headed ideas about Hitler and the Nazi party more broadly as being socialists, which run particularly strong through alt-right ideologies that seek to distance themselves from being called "Nazis" without actually abandoning the ideas that make them Nazi adjacent. Particularly those alt-right strains which grew out of neo-fascists movements in America, because distancing themselves from socialism and German Nazism was extremely important post-WWII.

People who legitimately drink the Kool-aid will say, and believe, "Clinton is a socialist like Hitler" while supporting the SS because "they were the real strength of Germany, and they got stabbed in the back by the socialist Nazis", or some such nonsense.

[estogoalie]

Guys, let's just stick to Greiss. It's too easy to derail this thread and have it locked.I think the DEB really needs to come forward and give a better explanation for cutting him, other than just for voicing his conservative political beliefs. I've read several articles (in German news) and aside from the Hillary and Trump stuff, the most recent reason they point to was his giving condolences on social media to Rush Limbaugh's family after his death. I don't know if that's really "cancel worthy" stuff (?)