Jump to content

Endurance Training


A10airknight

Recommended Posts

On 3/21/2018 at 1:58 PM, insertnamehere said:

Take about 50% of your max squat and do some sets of 20. Good times. ?

I try to do this once a month or so, it will definitely change your life...lol.  I know some powerlifters that do it 2 and 3 times per week...nucking futs, then again they're not what I would call "natural".  I'm getting good results with barbell complexes though, a "ladder" complex closely resembles the 20 rep squat feeling at its peak, which lasts about 10 minutes...brutal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, oncogene said:

Don't even know how can u guys do so much weight! I got a pair of 15 lb bells at home and that seems like a lot lol.

You build up to it.  I tore my MCL Dec. 2016.  That was the second time I had torn an MCL (one in each leg).  Once I was cleared for leg work, I started squatting again.  Worked up to 225 and it was really rough.  But by going slowly, I got up to a high of 450 over about a eight months or so.  I rarely go above 315 these days (I'm turning 47 and I don't recover as quickly as I used to).  But my knees have never been healthier and my hockey has never been hockeyer.  Or something.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/11/2018 at 2:00 PM, jeff da goalie said:

You build up to it.  I tore my MCL Dec. 2016.  That was the second time I had torn an MCL (one in each leg).  Once I was cleared for leg work, I started squatting again.  Worked up to 225 and it was really rough.  But by going slowly, I got up to a high of 450 over about a eight months or so.  I rarely go above 315 these days (I'm turning 47 and I don't recover as quickly as I used to).  But my knees have never been healthier and my hockey has never been hockeyer.  Or something.  

Started hitting the gym in April... first time in my life holy molly. Doing the leg press machine which i guess is similar to squats? I did 180 lb 4x15 reps so far today. No own body weight with the machine but then I'm only 145 lb anyway lol and there's part of the machine adding to the weight. Is it better to do it with the feet closer together or further apart like in a goalie stance?

... and there's a really strong guy in the gym doing 24 plates x 45 lb... gosh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, oncogene said:

Started hitting the gym in April... first time in my life holy molly. Doing the leg press machine which i guess is similar to squats? I did 180 lb 4x15 reps so far today. No own body weight with the machine but then I'm only 145 lb anyway lol and there's part of the machine adding to the weight. Is it better to do it with the feet closer together or further apart like in a goalie stance?

... and there's a really strong guy in the gym doing 24 plates x 45 lb... gosh

i would say you want to do them with you feet shoulder width apart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Znowleopard said:

i would say you want to do them with you feet shoulder width apart

I would say you don't want to do them at all.  1) they don't improve strength.  It has no correlation to sports ability.  2) they're a great way to wreck your lower back and/or knees.

You're much better off doing bodyweight squats or dumbbell squats than using the leg press.  The leg press should be used only in certain limited circumstances -- 1) you're a competitive bodybuilder or 2) certain rehab situations with light weight and under the supervision of a physical therapist.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, jeff da goalie said:

I would say you don't want to do them at all.  1) they don't improve strength.  It has no correlation to sports ability.  2) they're a great way to wreck your lower back and/or knees.

You're much better off doing bodyweight squats or dumbbell squats than using the leg press.  The leg press should be used only in certain limited circumstances -- 1) you're a competitive bodybuilder or 2) certain rehab situations with light weight and under the supervision of a physical therapist.  

What's different between the leg press machine vs squats with weight? Kinda seems like the same motion? Gym knowledge illiterate here lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, jeff da goalie said:

I would say you don't want to do them at all.  1) they don't improve strength.  It has no correlation to sports ability.  2) they're a great way to wreck your lower back and/or knees.

You're much better off doing bodyweight squats or dumbbell squats than using the leg press.  The leg press should be used only in certain limited circumstances -- 1) you're a competitive bodybuilder or 2) certain rehab situations with light weight and under the supervision of a physical therapist.  

I am a big fan of the dumbbell squats.  The movements is the actual motion of your body, instead of the one-move-fits-all locked in movement on the leg press.  I did a lot of these under the guidance of my Physical Therapist during my rehabilitation after my Heart Attack.  I told her my goal was to get back on the ice (I had been off the ice for 18 years) and she worked with me improving my leg strength again.  Would do reps with feet pointed straight ahead, then another set of reps with foot angle changed to toes pointing out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, oncogene said:

What's different between the leg press machine vs squats with weight? Kinda seems like the same motion? Gym knowledge illiterate here lol

completely different motion.  But the main thing is that since you aren't standing and stabilizing the weights with your body, you can cheat (most people do) and that puts a lot of stress on your lower back.  

http://tonygentilcore.com/2011/09/my-case-against-the-leg-press/ 

And for a goalie specific view:  http://www.goalietrainingpro.com/goalies/hockey_goalie_training/the-worst-hockey-goalie-exercises-ever/ 

I only use the leg press after an injury, under the supervision of my PT (or physio if you're a Canuck).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leg press is mainly used by bodybuilders for muscular hypertrophy, its not necessarily for building strength, but to develop certain muscles in the leg.  You can overload and do drop sets and all that on it, training techniques that would get most people hurt if attempted on the squat rack.  What most people don't understand about going to the gym is that most of the crap there is for bodybuilding purposes, that means developing the muscle from different angles, time under tension, etc.  These things do not usually equate to strength and functional ability, but are designed to improve aesthetics.  For strength, you want to choose exercises that incorporate as much of the body as possible at one time.  Squats are the mother of all exercises, when done right and often, your whole body will get stronger, not just your legs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, jayluv54 said:

Leg press is mainly used by bodybuilders for muscular hypertrophy, its not necessarily for building strength, but to develop certain muscles in the leg.  You can overload and do drop sets and all that on it, training techniques that would get most people hurt if attempted on the squat rack.  What most people don't understand about going to the gym is that most of the crap there is for bodybuilding purposes, that means developing the muscle from different angles, time under tension, etc.  These things do not usually equate to strength and functional ability, but are designed to improve aesthetics.  For strength, you want to choose exercises that incorporate as much of the body as possible at one time.  Squats are the mother of all exercises, when done right and often, your whole body will get stronger, not just your legs.

Hypertrophy can be important though, as a bigger muscle = more potential for strength. And what are you talking about, drop set squats are a party!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, insertnamehere said:

Hypertrophy can be important though, as a bigger muscle = more potential for strength. And what are you talking about, drop set squats are a party!

Well they do usually end in vomiting...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, insertnamehere said:

Hypertrophy can be important though, as a bigger muscle = more potential for strength. And what are you talking about, drop set squats are a party!

Hypertrophy to a point.  You don't want to skip leg day.  But you don't need bulging quads, particularly since the posterior chain (glutes, hamstrings and stabilizers) are more important for athletic purposes.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So is it safe to say free dumbbell weight (or cable pulley with weights?) exercises are usually better than the (superficially) equivalent fixed-motion machines for everything?

My friend who goes with me does have really skinny looking legs and he's tall, so perhaps he does want the aesthetics aspect :)

[Can't seem to type after the user name tags...] @jayluv54 @Naz  @jeff da goalie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@oncogene i think the other guys nailed it. Machines that isolate are good for targeting specific muscle groups, where as dumbbell, body weight, and some cable machines allow you to be dynamic with the lift. I had shoulder surgery last year and after five months of PT I can't recall a single exercise that we did with a isolation machine. Anytime your body is forced to do the stabilization work itself its a big benefit in sport.

If you're just starting out I'd even recommend using those TRX straps in the beginning as well. Can do a lot of great body weight stuff that gets your whole body stronger before eventually graduating to the weighted stuff. Getting your core / joints strong will pay big dividends once you start adding heavy weight to the mix.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@dstew29 I was thinking about those straps/bands too (although cheaper ones, not TRX). But decided I'd better head to gym. Too easy to get lazy or distracted trying to workout at home. And more important, wife is totally non-exercise type, and every other time I did any exercise at home (just riding stationery bike, or doing some push-ups), she'd yap at me every 2 min as why I have to exercise. Still getting nagged about me going to gym of course, but at least while I'm at the gym it's peaceful time lol.

And the gym has a few different weighted pulley setup so I guess those kinda enough like using straps, yeah?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dstew29 said:

@oncogene i think the other guys nailed it. Machines that isolate are good for targeting specific muscle groups, where as dumbbell, body weight, and some cable machines allow you to be dynamic with the lift. I had shoulder surgery last year and after five months of PT I can't recall a single exercise that we did with a isolation machine. Anytime your body is forced to do the stabilization work itself its a big benefit in sport.

If you're just starting out I'd even recommend using those TRX straps in the beginning as well. Can do a lot of great body weight stuff that gets your whole body stronger before eventually graduating to the weighted stuff. Getting your core / joints strong will pay big dividends once you start adding heavy weight to the mix.

TRX straps are great for stabilization.  They are what brought me back from a torn rotator cuff sustained while bench pressing.  I would do push ups on them, slowly increasing the angle of resistance each week.  Once I could handle being completely horizontal, I was ready to pick up some dumbbells.  I had multiple setback before using that method.  I'm learning to be a little less stubborn and a lot more patient as this body of mine keeps getting older.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, oncogene said:

So is it safe to say free dumbbell weight (or cable pulley with weights?) exercises are usually better than the (superficially) equivalent fixed-motion machines for everything?

My friend who goes with me does have really skinny looking legs and he's tall, so perhaps he does want the aesthetics aspect :)

[Can't seem to type after the user name tags...] @jayluv54 @Naz  @jeff da goalie

The best exercises are those you can do safely and progressively overload (meaning that you add weight or reps over time.  Then we get to periodization.  That's a separate topic.)  

Dumbbells, barbells, kettlebells, and yes, even cable pulleys are good.  Cable pulleys don't really restrict the plane of motion so for certain things, I'd even recommend them over an alternative (for example a triceps pushdown with a cable is safer than heavy skullcrushers with dumbbells).  

Any machine that locks you into one plane of motion is not as good as something that requires you to use good form and stabilize yourself.

When I first started lifting again, which even predates hockey, I worked with a trainer for five sessions to make sure my form was right.  And the only times I've gotten injured is when I forget that I'm in my late 40's and try to do stupid things like go for a 30 lb personal record when I'm already squatting in the 400s.  ;)

Right now I'm doing Maria Mountain's Beer League MVP workout.  It's changing the way I'm lifting, at least for now.  And it promises to be more goalie specific, which it seems to be so far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got into barbell and free weight workouts a few years back and haven't looked back.  I'm not able to play 2 hour sessions like I did when I was in my early twenties but I've also significantly cut down on injuries and pain after playing relative to when I hit 30 four years ago.  Jeff mentioned he went to a trainer to perfect his squat form and I've done the same and I'm pretty sure I'm on a level far below him.  I found a good, knowledgeable trainer through a friend and went in up front that I was trying to fix form and technique to help avoid injury and build strength.  Just make sure you get someone you're confident knows what they are doing to help you, there are tons of yahoos who claim to be trainers who may not have the expertise to keep you injury free.  I ended up doing 10 sessions, then I was on my own and haven't had a major gym or hockey injury since, which is huge because I'm generally not a flexible person to begin with.  There's a ton of data out there showing strength training like this will keep you living healthier and longer in general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2018 at 12:23 PM, jeff da goalie said:

The best exercises are those you can do safely and progressively overload (meaning that you add weight or reps over time.  Then we get to periodization.  That's a separate topic.)  

Dumbbells, barbells, kettlebells, and yes, even cable pulleys are good.  Cable pulleys don't really restrict the plane of motion so for certain things, I'd even recommend them over an alternative (for example a triceps pushdown with a cable is safer than heavy skullcrushers with dumbbells).  

Any machine that locks you into one plane of motion is not as good as something that requires you to use good form and stabilize yourself.

When I first started lifting again, which even predates hockey, I worked with a trainer for five sessions to make sure my form was right.  And the only times I've gotten injured is when I forget that I'm in my late 40's and try to do stupid things like go for a 30 lb personal record when I'm already squatting in the 400s.  ;)

Right now I'm doing Maria Mountain's Beer League MVP workout.  It's changing the way I'm lifting, at least for now.  And it promises to be more goalie specific, which it seems to be so far.

exactly how I tore my rotator cuff benching...its also not good to lift with guys 10-15 years younger, the ego just can't regulate itself in those situations.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, jayluv54 said:

exactly how I tore my rotator cuff benching...its also not good to lift with guys 10-15 years younger, the ego just can't regulate itself in those situations.  

true dat.  It's why I've backed off my squatting.  I scared myself straight and thought there was no reason to be chasing 500 lbs when I could get enough bang for the buck with 3 plates.  (Thinking wistfully, but 500 lbs is really cool . . . )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...