Warning for those switching from skate laces to bungee toe ties - to help you avoid injury

[Zigactly]

Hi there, ok, I just thought I would mention my experience switching from laces to bungees just in case it helps prevent an injury. I am not a young man and I have never been overly flexible; however, I have never experienced issues with my knees over the years of playing goal. At the start of this season I purchased a new set of pads that came with a bungee toes tie system. Being uninitiated, and having used skate laces for years, I looked up how to attach them to my skates and assumed they would work just fine. Well, after each of the first two ice times, my knees really hurt. Initially, I blamed the knee stacks and bought different knee pads, but the third skate I went down hard into a butterfly and I heard my right knee pop followed by blinding pain. 

A long story short, I tore the MCL and damaged my ACL in my right knee, and I have a lesser MCL tear on my left knee. Months of physio and I still cannot walk without a limp, let alone play hockey. 

So, what your point?

Ok, (a) I am likely too old to play and just not smart enough to quit, and (b) the bungees that came on my goalie pads simply did not have enough give in them - for me. They kept the toe of my skate too tightly attached to the centre of the pad which put my foot in an awkward angle in the butterfly. Essentially, when I was in the butterfly my toes were pointed up, with my heels on the ice, instead of my foot pointing down or level/parallel with the ice.

Is some of this my fault? Of course. I did not pay enough attention to how much stretch the bungees had for me. I just assumed that they are the latest in goalie technology and did not think much about it. There are a lot of different bungees and toe tie systems, so if you, like me are switching from skate laces (or leather, or baling twine) I encourage you to try the systems out to make sure that the have enough give to avoid adding unnecessary strain on your knees and hips. 

To be clear, my intent is not to complain or claim that bungee systems are somehow bad, of course they are not, or I only post this because maybe it will help someone else to avoid damaging their knees. New and shiny is not necessarily better, so check it out to make sure it will work for you. Cheers!

[RichMan]

OK, I'll be the first to ASK before I make a full comment or statement. 

Please post a pic of your pads with the bungee and I especially would like to see a shot of it from the back at the boot channel specifically. 

In the meantime, sorry to hear about the injury. Hope you have a full and healthy recovery. 

[IpaddyTECH]

So sorry about your injury and experience. I hope you heal well. This is good to keep in mind as we age. 

[Douglas goreham]

15 hours ago, Zigactly said:

Hi there, ok, I just thought I would mention my experience switching from laces to bungees just in case it helps prevent an injury. I am not a young man and I have never been overly flexible; however, I have never experienced issues with my knees over the years of playing goal. At the start of this season I purchased a new set of pads that came with a bungee toes tie system. Being uninitiated, and having used skate laces for years, I looked up how to attach them to my skates and assumed they would work just fine. Well, after each of the first two ice times, my knees really hurt. Initially, I blamed the knee stacks and bought different knee pads, but the third skate I went down hard into a butterfly and I heard my right knee pop followed by blinding pain. 

A long story short, I tore the MCL and damaged my ACL in my right knee, and I have a lesser MCL tear on my left knee. Months of physio and I still cannot walk without a limp, let alone play hockey. 

So, what your point?

Ok, (a) I am likely too old to play and just not smart enough to quit, and (b) the bungees that came on my goalie pads simply did not have enough give in them - for me. They kept the toe of my skate too tightly attached to the centre of the pad which put my foot in an awkward angle in the butterfly. Essentially, when I was in the butterfly my toes were pointed up, with my heels on the ice, instead of my foot pointing down or level/parallel with the ice.

Is some of this my fault? Of course. I did not pay enough attention to how much stretch the bungees had for me. I just assumed that they are the latest in goalie technology and did not think much about it. There are a lot of different bungees and toe tie systems, so if you, like me are switching from skate laces (or leather, or baling twine) I encourage you to try the systems out to make sure that the have enough give to avoid adding unnecessary strain on your knees and hips. 

To be clear, my intent is not to complain or claim that bungee systems are somehow bad, of course they are not, or I only post this because maybe it will help someone else to avoid damaging their knees. New and shiny is not necessarily better, so check it out to make sure it will work for you. Cheers!

Although bungees stretch you still should have some slack at the toes like your laces did. I put a 3" piece of rubber tubing on mine and have no problems.

[RichMan]

2 minutes ago, Douglas goreham said:

Although bungees stretch you still should have some slack at the toes like your laces did. I put a 3" piece of rubber tubing on mine and have no problems.

Not to derail the thread but could you post a pic? I had that idea for my Pro-Laces I was using but couldn't find something suitable that wouldn't bunch up or just fall off. Closest thing I did was a couple turns of stick tape to pinch the first 1" - 1" 1/2.

[Toobs]

1 minute ago, RichMan said:

Not to derail the thread but could you post a pic? I had that idea for my Pro-Laces I was using but couldn't find something suitable that wouldn't bunch up or just fall off. Closest thing I did was a couple turns of stick tape to pinch the first 1" - 1" 1/2.

Just buy the prolaces hybrid. They come with a 2” section of skate lace between the toe attachment and bungie.

[RichMan]

1 minute ago, Toobs said:

Just buy the prolaces hybrid. They come with a 2” section of skate lace between the toe attachment and bungie.

I know but I had already bought mine before those came out, hence my mod. At 50$ a pop, I don't necessarily want to build a collection you know. After all, I only own 1 set of pads  

[Douglas goreham]

1 minute ago, RichMan said:

Not to derail the thread but could you post a pic? I had that idea for my Pro-Laces I was using but couldn't find something suitable that wouldn't bunch up or just fall off. Closest thing I did was a couple turns of stick tape to pinch the first 1" - 1" 1/2.

At the for bridge I just ran the bungees through the rubber tubing tied a knot and then just ran the bungee as usual through the blade holder and fastened at the top of the skake.

[RichMan]

Just now, Douglas goreham said:

At the for bridge I just ran the bungees through the rubber tubing tied a knot and then just ran the bungee as usual through the blade holder and fastened at the top of the skake.

Ok but is it just like a piece of hose or something? Can't be too wide of a tube obviously.

[Douglas goreham]

4 minutes ago, RichMan said:

Ok but is it just like a piece of hose or something? Can't be too wide of a tube obviously.

Nope just some tubing I picked up at the hardware store . It's just wide enough to pass the two bungees through.

[erik19]

Thought I'd try going back to laces tonight after several years of bungee, and a few months of prolaces TGN spec (using no extra knots of skate lace)

Felt really good! Very comfortable moving around.  Perhaps less stress on knees and ankles than with bungies?  No issues with pad rotation.  Had about 10 knots worth of unwaxed skate lace.  Pushes off post from RVH felt noticeable better.

Don't feel like I'll be going back anytime soon.  

[pfeiffjay54]

I hope you can heal quickly! What toe ties were they? When I demoed bauers I always thought they had tight toe ties, thought the same with Ccm but never tried on the ice

[coopaloop1234]

10 hours ago, pfeiffjay54 said:

I hope you can heal quickly! What toe ties were they? When I demoed bauers I always thought they had tight toe ties, thought the same with Ccm but never tried on the ice

It's either Bauer or Warrior pads, they both have tighter elastic systems than most. 

But at the same time, they both have enough give that no one's foot should be pointing upwards... 

I'm going to jump to conclusions and say that this is due to user error somehow. 

[Toobs]

4 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

It's either Bauer or Warrior pads, they both have tighter elastic systems than most. 

But at the same time, they both have enough give that no one's foot should be pointing upwards... 

I'm going to jump to conclusions and say that this is due to user error somehow. 

Have to agree with you. Bauers are by far the tightest bungees, I replaced the ones on my HL2s after one skate cause they were way too short.

That being said, there’s still plenty of give that there’s no way it should have caused MCL or ACL injuries.

[coopaloop1234]

4 minutes ago, Toobs said:

Have to agree with you. Bauers are by far the tightest bungees, I replaced the ones on my HL2s after one skate cause they were way too short.

That being said, there’s still plenty of give that there’s no way it should have caused MCL or ACL injuries.

My ARS on my RGT1 ended up giving me some issues on my MCL on my right leg due to the tension and getting run into a few too many times. I was sidelined for about two weeks to let it heal up. I could still play, just took the safe route.

Shortly after was when I switched to Pro Laces and they were massively looser. 

I can definitely see some bungee systems not being the "cure" that is generally raved about, but even the worse ones won't cause whatever is happening here. 

[RichMan]

Skate laces alone were not helping and I don't think have 3+ inches of slack will do good on my knee landing, which means I'd hove to go back to boot straps to keep the pad up? I'd be going backwards. Pro-Laces have been great. I recently started using my own franken'setup to get a better drive with the lower portion of the pad. Still toying with the setup but feeling ok so far...

[Puckstopper]

On 2/3/2024 at 10:43 PM, Zigactly said:

A long story short, I tore the MCL and damaged my ACL in my right knee, and I have a lesser MCL tear on my left knee. Months of physio and I still cannot walk without a limp, let alone play hockey. 

Ok, (a) I am likely too old to play and just not smart enough to quit, and 

Is some of this my fault? Of course. I did not pay enough attention to how much stretch the bungees had for me. I just assumed that they are the latest in goalie technology and did not think much about it. There are a lot of different bungees and toe tie systems, so if you, like me are switching from skate laces (or leather, or baling twine) I encourage you to try the systems out to make sure that the have enough give to avoid adding unnecessary strain on your knees and hips. 

 

Ouch!   I've jacked up both MCL's over the years and that injury is no fun at all.   Your point A most certainly describes me to a tee, so believe me, I sympathize and feel your pain. 

It's certainly good advice to test the fit and function of the gear.  

I find it interesting that people are finding Bauer's bungees too tight.   I had to tie a knot in the front of mine (in front of the toe bridge) to get them short enough to feel right.   

Edited February 6 by Puckstopper

[OldSchoolGoalie]

I did my own bungee toe tie setup and so far these have held up since March 2023 and I play 3-5 times a week and costed under $6! I pretty much use 2" of skate lace from the pad to the bungee and lock it in with an S-Clip. I get that benefit of a bit of slack with the lace for the post, but the snappy part from the bungee and I don't get ankle, knee, or any other stress anymore.

I found skate laces alone causes problems due to little to no give, and when I used bungees tight with zero slack I would get massive ankle pain. I also tried some slack on the bungees and it just didn't work well. This has been the only setup where I get zero problems and dirt cheap. The main thing is with your skate lace make sure it is snug and will not have any give where the S Clip is because if it starts pulling out you'll feel the pad not sitting as snug up on the boot.

Also some things about going custom.
 

1. You're able to pick the cord you use.
2. You can wrap it in lace to add a "shield".
3. It is dirt cheap compared to ProLaces which I had snap in less than a year - they just were not long enough for my setup.
4. The hybrid option with the lace is super easy.
5. Length is 100% up to how you want it.

So what I will say is I used skate lace for awhile, went to ProLaces and hated it with a passion. The length was too short and I didn't want to buy that Trav spec one. The price was also pretty high for what you're getting.

With what I built here I have extra bungees ready to go, and this has lasted already since March of 2023! It is so simple to swap out, will take under 10 seconds. Extra S-Clips incase they break. Putting on the pads are so simple and they stay in place, you will never get the bungee going over the top of the skates during play. For the KONEKT setup I have a version too so when I get those skates I can easily do this as well.

Post: 

 

Edited February 8 by OldSchoolGoalie

[creasecollector]

I have adopted a similar "lace before bungee" method as well. Always me to have the slack of a traditional toe tie setup with the added snapback of a bungee. 

Will try and get pictures up when I'm home.

[OldSchoolGoalie]

On 2/7/2024 at 8:31 PM, creasecollector said:

I have adopted a similar "lace before bungee" method as well. Always me to have the slack of a traditional toe tie setup with the added snapback of a bungee. 

Will try and get pictures up when I'm home.

Looking forward to seeing your setup!

[creasecollector]

On 2/9/2024 at 7:19 AM, OldSchoolGoalie said:

Looking forward to seeing your setup!

It’s nothing fancy haha.

I noticed before a game that the laces that attached my bungee setup to the toe bridge was super loose, but I had no time to fix it. I ended up liking it and now do this moving forward. I should probably add a few knots instead to help with lace durability, but this is the setup I’m rocking right now. 
 

[OldSchoolGoalie]

If it works, it works! Nice setup.

[creasecollector]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolGoalie said:

If it works, it works! Nice setup.

Thanks!

[keeperton]

This whole thread has confounded me in a way I'm not sure how to describe. I've seen a fair amount of elastic toe tie libel on goalie-based social media. So apologies if the rest of this post comes across incredulous; I've been thinking about this nearly all week.

It might come across as flame, but like, how do you play this position and have week enough legs that the elastic of your toe ties contorts your knees enough to mess them up? Are you all not testing your gear before stepping out onto the ice prior? Are y'all not punching your feet/toes to the ice in the butterfly so you can engage your edges sooner when down and instead kicking your feet up when going down instead of driving your knees down when going into the butterfly like I've spent countless hours teaching the kids in my youth program to do?

Drive the knees, test your equipment, keep your feet (especially your toes like in the toe-lock in the RVH) close to the ice instead of up like old leather-strap toe-ties forced them prior to '97.

Your gear should never be causing injuries and elastic toe-ties are very likely not the problem. The Bauer ties are rather low tension, comparable to the EcoPro Foam ties. I've been running the same pair of Pro Laces for nearly 4 years without issue from them, so I'm super unsure how others have worn through them.

[RichMan]

@keeperton I've asked the OP if he could post a pic of his set-up to better understand how he could possibly sustain such injuries with bungies. Still waiting. 

My original Pro-Laces are kinda tight but still allowed me to rotate my ankle properly. My Trav like Pro-Laces have even more give. My photos above give me an in between feeling. 

There's a mystery at hand.