I'm a lunger (and it makes me crazy)

[seagoal]

We had our second playoff game late tonight and we lost in round 4 of a shootout, 4-3 final score.  I gotta say I played really well in OT and made 3 really difficult saves in key moments down low on deflections and one timers, obviously in sudden death. 

But, I let in two really bad goals in regulation (first one was a reverse Leighton on the glove side....THE historical Leighton goal. Just terrible on my part .) and 3/4 attempts in the shootout. On these 4 breakaway goals I got caught lunging with my upper body rather than staying up on my pads and using them to slide and make saves on the ice (not a whole lot of quick dekes followed by roofjobs in my division). 

So on the regulation breakaway and the shootout breakaways, they were situations where the guy is coming in basically center, tries to shake me on the side and get behind me. So i have to move both laterally and backwards.

I know what this should look like, i even told myself before the shootout to "end on a post on shakes and use your legs, do not drop like bricks and try to extend sideways."

But when it came down to it, I essentially do what I am supposed to do, but with my upper body--gloves/stick first. I drop to cover 5 hole and then lunge over and back, of course my momentum is screwed and I'm chasing the puck because I'm caught behind the shooter's momentum.  

There is just this glitch with my brain and my body that I don't stay up on my pads and slide over and back.  I.practice this movement all the time and I routinely make saves on lateral passing plays to one timers this way. But on breakaways, the technique and my focus and my discipline falls apart and I'm caught lunging and scrambling and end up on my sides laying on the ice with the puck in the net. The feeling of being beaten this way and horizontal on the ice just sucks.

It makes me crazy because I know precisely what to do right and how to do it.  But that is very rational and I feel like on breakaways where this shot selection is chosen my rationality blows up and then my instincts kick in which, unfortunately,  involves bad form and a low percentage save selection of me lunging and ending up horizontal like a fool.

Solution? Goalie coach and repetition at practice.  Train my instincts to be different.  That,  sadly, isnt really an option around here.  

Ugh. Sorry, this isn't so much me seeking advice or how-to info, I'm just frustrated and venting.

Next playoff game in two nights.  We are not out yet.  We are 1-1 right now and it's double elimination.

[Lucky Pucker]

2 hours ago, seagoal said:

We had our second playoff game late tonight and we lost in round 4 of a shootout, 4-3 final score.  I gotta say I played really well in OT and made 3 really difficult saves in key moments down low on deflections and one timers, obviously in sudden death. 

But, I let in two really bad goals in regulation (first one was a reverse Leighton on the glove side....THE historical Leighton goal. Just terrible on my part .) and 3/4 attempts in the shootout. On these 4 breakaway goals I got caught lunging with my upper body rather than staying up on my pads and using them to slide and make saves on the ice (not a whole lot of quick dekes followed by roofjobs in my division). 

So on the regulation breakaway and the shootout breakaways, they were situations where the guy is coming in basically center, tries to shake me on the side and get behind me. So i have to move both laterally and backwards.

I know what this should look like, i even told myself before the shootout to "end on a post on shakes and use your legs, do not drop like bricks and try to extend sideways."

But when it came down to it, I essentially do what I am supposed to do, but with my upper body--gloves/stick first. I drop to cover 5 hole and then lunge over and back, of course my momentum is screwed and I'm chasing the puck because I'm caught behind the shooter's momentum.  

There is just this glitch with my brain and my body that I don't stay up on my pads and slide over and back.  I.practice this movement all the time and I routinely make saves on lateral passing plays to one timers this way. But on breakaways, the technique and my focus and my discipline falls apart and I'm caught lunging and scrambling and end up on my sides laying on the ice with the puck in the net. The feeling of being beaten this way and horizontal on the ice just sucks.

It makes me crazy because I know precisely what to do right and how to do it.  But that is very rational and I feel like on breakaways where this shot selection is chosen my rationality blows up and then my instincts kick in which, unfortunately,  involves bad form and a low percentage save selection of me lunging and ending up horizontal like a fool.

Solution? Goalie coach and repetition at practice.  Train my instincts to be different.  That,  sadly, isnt really an option around here.  

Ugh. Sorry, this isn't so much me seeking advice or how-to info, I'm just frustrated and venting.

Next playoff game in two nights.  We are not out yet.  We are 1-1 right now and it's double elimination.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

If it's any consolation, you're not the only one. I've been having very similar thoughts over the last few weeks myself, and doing similarly undesirable (read: incorrect) things in similar situations! For me, it might be even worse: Right now,  I'm only in shinny games where, shall we say, I am afforded the luxury of myriad opportunities to practice and self-correct my breakaway response. I can't really go the goalie coach route either - but I think we can do this better, man! We can at very least commiserate here if it doesn't work - LOL!

Best of luck in the rest of the series!

[Teezle]

One of the best pieces of advice I got for this type of situation is to keep a more narrow stance when you're skating backwards matching the shooter coming in - don't try to be in a "save-ready" wide stance until you absolutely need to be. It really helps with keeping your momentum for the sideways pushes and slides!

[coopaloop1234]

Game breakaways and shootout breakaways are always different. The time, space, starting position, pressure and thought process are all widely different that I've always been easily able to separate the two when it comes down to how they play out. 

I've always found myself guilty of over thinking situations when it comes down to it. Getting me in the moment and not thinking allows me to perform better. It's why my save percentage for in game vs shootout's are night and day lol.

I'll give you an example, played in a tournament this weekend that does penalty shots as their method of penalties. Played against a not as skilled team where we took a few penalties. Guys coming in weren't the best skaters or shooters and they came in on me slow. Got burned too much for my liking against those type of guys solely because I overthought the situation.

Next game played against one of the better teams in the tournament. Faced a ton of breakaways and penalty shots and only let it one.

It's funny how it works.

[seagoal]

2 hours ago, Teezle said:

One of the best pieces of advice I got for this type of situation is to keep a more narrow stance when you're skating backwards matching the shooter coming in - don't try to be in a "save-ready" wide stance until you absolutely need to be. It really helps with keeping your momentum for the sideways pushes and slides!

Thanks for the responses, guys.

This is a very important piece of advice in these situations, for sure, because we have to generate power somehow move laterally and backwards.

My strategy outlined above is lunging or diving, which does in fact generate power but in doing so loses coverage and makes the likelihood of success much smaller.

That's where the technique and discipline comes in which is nearly impossible to develop without repetitions.  The power to move laterally and backwards should come from the opposite foot (left foot if sliding right) and we should be leading that motion with the lead foot (right if sliding right).  This is something I practice in warm-ups every game and in pick-up I just can't f'n do it on breakaways or shootouts, apparently. 

It's evidently a psychological thing....nerves, overthinking, etc.  I'm going to work on it tonight at pickup and stage a little shootout with my buddies before we start. 

I'm stating it now on here: my goal is to make many more boring looking, very efficient saves on breakaways and in shootouts.  As we know, it's those boring looking efficient saves that are often the most difficult to do consistently with success and in my mind doing so makes a good goalie better.  That's my goal.

My buddy who has played goalie his whole life with coaching once told me on a breakaway: dude, that was a great save and I don't ever want to see you make that save again. 

That's the flip side of my goal: make less of those types of saves for dekes and low shots.

[Colander]

This video is pretty good at explaining the essentials. I think the key thing is what he calls the "decision making zone". I am still struggling with that...

[seagoal]

Nice @Colander, thanks for posting that.   The crazy thing about watching that is just how simple and efficient and.... well, boring, it looks. Minimal effort (physically) with a high chance of success.  Sounds like a goal to aspire to, for sure.

It's all about timing of execution and being mentally disciplined. 

[seagoal]

For contrast, here's the best example I could find of the lunging: drop straight down like bricks and then desperately lunging laterally and back to try to cover the low parts, essentially chasing the puck behind your momentum.  

[Colander]

The one thing that really helps me on breakaways is what I believe he refers to as "flow"  - I track the shooter at speed to start with and then slow up just a bit at the end to draw him close and take away the shot (I'm pretty short so I would like to rely on my reflexes on a close in deke as opposed to a shot from the kill-zone).

While the video did help me a lot, I am still struggling with the theory of the decision making zone though. Are you supposed to stop all rearward motion at that point, pick a post and slide toward it? If so which one - too many guys I play against can change direction on a dime.  I actually tried "holding" the zone the other day in warm up (by stopping rearward motion) and the skater basically ran into me - he didn't score though .  The other problem I have with heading for one post or the other is once I hit the decision making zone is some of the guys I play against can easily pull what I call a "drag and drop" by extending their reach with one hand to the opposite side...still so much to learn

[Colander]

9 minutes ago, seagoal said:

For contrast, here's the best example I could find of the lunging: drop straight down like bricks and then desperately lunging laterally and back to try to cover the low parts, essentially chasing the puck behind your momentum.  

Yeah - that video is a perfect example of having no "flow" whatsoever. Stopping a guy coming in while standing perfectly still inside your crease is an exercise in frustration.

[seagoal]

10 minutes ago, Colander said:

The one thing that really helps me on breakaways is what I believe he refers to as "flow"  - I track the shooter at speed to start with and then slow up just a bit at the end to draw him close and take away the shot (I'm pretty short so I would like to rely on my reflexes on a close in deke as opposed to a shot from the kill-zone).

While the video did help me a lot, I am still struggling with the theory of the decision making zone though. Are you supposed to stop all rearward motion at that point, pick a post and slide toward it? If so which one - too many guys I play against can change direction on a dime.  I actually tried "holding" the zone the other day in warm up (by stopping rearward motion) and the skater basically ran into me - he didn't score though .  The other problem I have with heading for one post or the other is once I hit the decision making zone is some of the guys I play against can easily pull what I call a "drag and drop" by extending their reach with one hand to the opposite side...still so much to learn

My take on the decision making zone was that's where your options come into play and we have to BOTH maintain our momentum/position while also leaving ourselves open to reacting to the shooter.

It's the fork in the road , so to speak, with many options to consider.

[Lucky Pucker]

@seagoal and @Colander :

I just wanted to thank you both for the posts in this thread. I had these thoughts and tips in my head yesterday when I played with the most talented group of the groups I play with. The ranks were depleted by an away tournament, so they played 4-on-4, which meant lots of practice for me.

Somehow, I managed to stop quite a few break-aways - including one from the best player. Y'know the type - usually scores whenever and however he wants, stick-handles in a phone booth, etc. Was it dumb luck? Yeah, that's certainly possible. Was I executing the techniques here properly? No, not really - but I felt more confident in my approach, thanks to this thread.

@seagoal - did you have your Game 3 yet, or is it tonight? If tonight, best of luck!

[seagoal]

2 hours ago, Lucky Pucker said:

@seagoal and @Colander :

I just wanted to thank you both for the posts in this thread. I had these thoughts and tips in my head yesterday when I played with the most talented group of the groups I play with. The ranks were depleted by an away tournament, so they played 4-on-4, which meant lots of practice for me.

Somehow, I managed to stop quite a few break-aways - including one from the best player. Y'know the type - usually scores whenever and however he wants, stick-handles in a phone booth, etc. Was it dumb luck? Yeah, that's certainly possible. Was I executing the techniques here properly? No, not really - but I felt more confident in my approach, thanks to this thread.

@seagoal - did you have your Game 3 yet, or is it tonight? If tonight, best of luck!

Hey, 

Thanks so much. Sounds like you played really well. Glad to know this conversation was helpful.

Game 3 is tonight . I'm feeling very confident and excited.

[Colander]

12 hours ago, Lucky Pucker said:

@seagoal and @Colander :

I just wanted to thank you both for the posts in this thread. I had these thoughts and tips in my head yesterday when I played with the most talented group of the groups I play with. The ranks were depleted by an away tournament, so they played 4-on-4, which meant lots of practice for me.

Somehow, I managed to stop quite a few break-aways - including one from the best player. Y'know the type - usually scores whenever and however he wants, stick-handles in a phone booth, etc. Was it dumb luck? ...

No, it wasn’t. There’s something in your brain that accentuates what you see and hear and converts it to what you do. Over the years I’ve seen a number of goalies who, after they have been scored on “mime” what they should have done as the puck is carried back to the face off. I didn’t really put any credence in that,  but now having experimented with it, I can’t tell you how many times, after warm-up I will “mime” moves that I want to improve while I wait for the start of the game  (even during play of I get a second while it’s at the other end. –which isn’t too often) only to make a great stop* based on what I just mimed.

Is this realistic?  I look at it this way, how many times have you heard someone say to a child “don’t trip on that rock”, “don’t spill your milk” etc. only to have it happen? When we plant a seed, we reap what we sew…

(* "great stop" by my definition is not having the icing shot go in)

[loki1416]

I think @Colander hit a good topic. I've said that before in another thread. Basically, I do this all the time. Doing the play over in your head at a slower pace (moving your body with it of course) and then doing it at game speed really helps. I know for me, when I work on plugging one hole, another opens up some where else. So these mind drills really help me find those stupid holes.

[Lucky Pucker]

11 hours ago, Colander said:

No, it wasn’t. There’s something in your brain that accentuates what you see and hear and converts it to what you do. Over the years I’ve seen a number of goalies who, after they have been scored on “mime” what they should have done as the puck is carried back to the face off. I didn’t really put any credence in that,  but now having experimented with it, I can’t tell you how many times, after warm-up I will “mime” moves that I want to improve while I wait for the start of the game  (even during play of I get a second while it’s at the other end. –which isn’t too often) only to make a great stop* based on what I just mimed.

Is this realistic?  I look at it this way, how many times have you heard someone say to a child “don’t trip on that rock”, “don’t spill your milk” etc. only to have it happen? When we plant a seed, we reap what we sew…

(* "great stop" by my definition is not having the icing shot go in)

Again, this thread - however it is to be explained - has really helped me! I'm going to read through it again before my game today. Hopefully, I can effectively envision myself making a "great stop" as you describe, though so far execution of said "great stop" is still something I can only aspire to - LOL!

[Colander]

10 hours ago, loki1416 said:

I think @Colander hit a good topic. I've said that before in another thread. Basically, I do this all the time. Doing the play over in your head at a slower pace (moving your body with it of course) and then doing it at game speed really helps. I know for me, when I work on plugging one hole, another opens up some where else. So these mind drills really help me find those stupid holes.

Excellent comment - that was one point I was going to add, but I felt I was getting too verbose in my response. The slowing of motion is extremely important as it allows you to see any mistakes you are making as you execute. Once you perfect it at slow sped, then you can slowly increase to game speed.

@Lucky Pucker: good luck in your game today. Just remember, play your game - don't over think stuff, you can alwayss mentally revisit the areas you want to improve later!

[TheGoalNet]

@seagoal - I Can get very in my own head sometimes. The best thing I have learned to do is stop caring... Such cliche advise? Because it sorta works.

After I have a bad game, I make sure to get to a pick up skate before the next one. All I do is focus on seeing the puck come off the players stick. I don't care if I look like Hasek or Giguire or Price making the save. If I am able to really get focused on the stick blade, all my other problems go away... Quickly too!

[seagoal]

This thread is inspiring.  Thanks guys.

Well, here is the update.  So we have our playoff game last night and halfway through the 1st at 0-0 a guy gets a breakaway and my D takes him down...wouldn't you know it , a penalty shot.  

I know the shooter very well too, he's a shaker , not a shooter.  

My mind goes to doing exactly what you guys recently discussed.  Slow motion envisioning the shot and motion I'm going to make , the save, etc. I tell myself outloud to stay up, on my knees, no lunging, cover the net first and chase the puck only in desperation if needed.  Play my position and my plan first, don't f'n lunge.

He comes in , right handed, it's a dekepalooza, little quick rapid ones, he makes his move to his backhand and tries to shake me, I push with my left skate,  drop my right ankle, hit my right knee down, slide with perfect momentum, the puck clips the top of my left pad, changes direction,  hits the boot of my pad, and in.  I'm on my knees in a symmetrical butterfly now with my stick at my 5 hole and standing tall on my knees.

I felt like a million bucks because I played it just like they do on TV and I executed my plan. I failed, sure.  But I was dejected the other night after losing that shootout,  talked here with you guys, learned my lesson, developed a new plan, and did it successfully despite the puck going in.

The game finally ended 5-3. We got outshot , outskated,  and outplayed and lost.  But,  I felt great and thought I ended on a high note. 

We can't always win hockey games but we can always improve and succeed in our smaller missions for ourselves.

Wishing you the best tonight @Lucky Pucker

We are in your corner......er....crease ...with you.

[Moose75]

On 4/9/2019 at 3:08 PM, seagoal said:

For contrast, here's the best example I could find of the lunging: drop straight down like bricks and then desperately lunging laterally and back to try to cover the low parts, essentially chasing the puck behind your momentum.  

A few things to take away from this:

1. You made the save.

Ugly in execution, I know. As dumb as it sounds, you did the most important thing here which is not allowing a goal. I do like the fact that despite making the save you want to figure out a more efficient way to do so. At the same time, keep in mind it doesn't always have to look technical as long as the save is made. 

2. To make this more technique-based:

First, gain some depth once you identify the breakaway. We'll analyze this whole situation a bit more after these points. Take a good push out to where you feel comfortable. I find my Goldilocks zone is at the bottom of the circles. Some guys like to come out more, sometimes you get stuck in the crease which isn't always ideal. Coming out and looking aggressive gives the shooter a harder time because they see less net and it also gives you the necessary momentum to follow them back in. Be aware that you don't drift too far back into your paint. This will give the shooter ample room and time to pick a spot. Stay big and find an appropriate point to set your feet. Every breakaway is different, so I can't give you an absolute on when to set your feet. 

Second, prepare your breakaway stance. As you drift back with the shooter, keep your hands out in front of you and try to keep your shoulders big. This will allow you to react quicker if he shoots without warning, and it also makes it harder for the shooter to lift over you as he gets in closer. Keep in mind, the further back in your crease you are, the angle of your hands should change. For example, if you do that Varlamov glove hand and keep it that high even when the shooter gets in close, he's going to see a lot more room than if you were to keep it low and out. Erik Granqvist has a saying I like, "be the puck". Meaning see what you think the puck sees and adjust and adapt. If he dekes, make sure you keep your hands and front, and most importantly keep your chest square with the puck, not him. His body will be at a different spot than the important thing you need to be in front of: the puck. 

Third, and this is returning to identifying the situation from my first point, read the situation. In your case, the shooter had three of your teammates pressing on him, and somewhat boxing him out after he made his move. In this situation I feel like your save was fine. There wasn't much for the shooter to do after - your team had control and regained possession. Him having that added pressure of a backcheck made him have limited time to decide and limited space on what moves he can do. It is up to you to identity this, too. Knowing what options a guy has as he comes in on you means you can prepare better and plan how aggressive you should be. Unless this dude can stick handle in a phone booth, he is hard-committing to one side or the other in most cases. In a case like this where your defense has your back, don't be afraid to poke check or play aggressively. In other situations where you're on your own, playing to kill a rebound or keep it from going to a vulnerable area is probably a good idea, but tough since it will be on the fly.

Fourth, there are some smaller details to note as well. Tendencies: if you play a certain team or player a lot, you'll begin to notice what they prefer to do. If you know a guy likes to pan hard-right and go glove hand, keep your glove out more, or poke check him if the situation allows it. If he's one of those guys who just does whatever, read and react accordingly. If you still find yourself coming forward, work on your core strength to keep yourself more upright, and stopping on the balls of your feet, not your toes or heels. Remember: make sure you present your hands, keep your shoulders big, set your feet when the time is right, and above all, watch the puck.

3. I forgot where I was going with this long-winded advice-rant thing, but I just like things to come in threes. So here's a link to my old goalie coach's video that has a lot of great tidbits and information you may find useful. 

57 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

@seagoal - I Can get very in my own head sometimes. The best thing I have learned to do is stop caring... Such cliche advise? Because it sorta works.

After I have a bad game, I make sure to get to a pick up skate before the next one. All I do is focus on seeing the puck come off the players stick. I don't care if I look like Hasek or Giguire or Price making the save. If I am able to really get focused on the stick blade, all my other problems go away... Quickly too!

I unhealthy obsess over every detail sometimes (all the time) during and after games. I'll think about games from years ago and how I should have played things. So this is also great advice. I've found to be aware of what you are doing, but give yourself to the cosmic flow of a game. Like I said earlier, there are no absolutes in this sport, so every game and situation is different. Having a good base technique to start helps, but staying tethered to it at all times often doesn't. Just make the save.

Also another good point: focus on that puck. Be the puck. And set your feet before the shot comes, too. You don't want to be drifting still when that shot does come.

EDIT: Spelling errors and grammar errors most likely. 

[seagoal]

Man, awesome post @Moose75. Very good attention to details.

For clarity though, that's not me in the video, just an example from YouTube.   

But besides that your whole post is valid and very much appreciated

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

always important to stay on your feet as long as you can on a breakaway. In the one video, I use the move Quick uses where you fake the leg drop and it cause the shooter to get confused.