What does it take to be a gear innovator

[TheGoalNet]

GGN raised an interesting topic on their IG feed. It's a topic that I've been tempted to write about for awhile and haven't gotten to yet.

I will at some point...

In the interim, I'd love to hear everyone's opinion on this?

1. What 3 companies do you find the most innovative and why? 

2. What does it take to be regarded as an innovator? 

[IPv6Freely]

I picked Bauer, Brian's, Warrior. Bauer for the obvious 1S/1X/2S pad styles. No matter how much I hate it, there's absolutely no question that it's innovative.

Brians and Warrior both primarily for the strapping systems that have become the norm. It's interesting to me seeing how many NHL goalies are now in almost all-elastic setups where when I was first wearing Brian's Smart Strap stuff I was wondering why no NHL goalies weren't. 

Also huge credit to any company that is doing away with bits of gear that have become unnecessary, like the knee cradle, the leather strapping, the knee rolls, the boot strap in its traditional form, the lace toe ties, etc. There are of course going to be people who still use all of those things because it's what they are used to and comfortable with, but that group is shrinking. 

So for me, innovative simply means trying new things and pushing gear into the future while eliminating features that are no longer useful or important. 

[coopaloop1234]

@IPv6Freely Voted the same

Bauer - the 1S/2S/1X lines have been a good step forward for the company and leg pads in general. While i'm not impressed with their durability and general printing process so far, there is potential and we will have to see how it turns out.

Brian's - The custom company who were really the leaders for the elastic/velcro revolution we are currently in. Undeniably the largest gear switch we have seen in the past 5 years.

Warrior - Movable blocker liner, different catching glove liners for breaks, post wedges, ARS system, knee drive system. No wrist strap on the catching glove. I'm a warrior user myself and I've found that their gear is probably pushing the envelope more than any other when it comes to different designs in their pads. While I do think some of their innovations are a miss (plastic elbow floaters) some are fantastic and they're definitely in the front for me when it comes to innovation.

All three are doing neat things independently and it's curious to watch them try and differentiate themselves in the market place.

 

Then you have CCM/Vaughn/ and the little guys who are more or less plugging away at churning out very similar gear year after year and they're always a step or two behind in regards to adopting new tech to their pads. Hell, Bauer was bad for this as well until the 1S line took hold.

[ULTIMA]

I know guys might say that weight reduction is considered to be innovative. I personally don't consider weight reduction to be innovation. Rather it is evolution.

[ULTIMA]

Oh...and I'm not sure Simmons can be included on this list considering they have blatantly ripped off every company to get where they are today.

[TheGoalNet]

20 minutes ago, ULTIMA said:

Oh...and I'm not sure Simmons can be included on this list considering they have blatantly ripped off every company to get where they are today.

Just tried to be fair and include everyone. 

Thinking about it just now...

Back in the day, Simmons was sorta sneaky innovative though. They fixed a lot of blatant oversights in Vaughn products they were knocking off. It was subtle for sure, but worth noting. 

[ULTIMA]

Sorta sneaky? They never spent a penny on R & D. They'd get their hands on a pad, dissect it and figure out how to make it their own and "better". And I'm sorry to say for those out there that are frugal, but if you're a penny pincher, you'll be that guy to back Simmons on their products. But they didn't invent anything and in my opinion deserve no credit for any contribution or participation with regards to anything innovative to the goalie pad or any goalie gear.

I normally wouldn't be this outlandish or straight forward about it. But I remember their advertisements on their website sticking it to the competitors with things like "Do you pay less than X$ for Canadian made gear" ? The balls on those guys....I apologize for getting somewhat off topic.

Anyway, Itech was a good investment for Bauer. That purchase helped Bauer turn the corner and really get them on the goalie map. That last line by Itech - the RX9 was fantastic. That was my favorite pad up until that point in time and pushed it heavily in the store that I worked at.

[IPv6Freely]

55 minutes ago, ULTIMA said:

I know guys might say that weight reduction is considered to be innovative. I personally don't consider weight reduction to be innovation. Rather it is evolution.

Weight reduction is just a byproduct of the innovation. Though I think that's basically what you're saying also. 

[IPv6Freely]

Somebody voted for Vaughn... I'd love to hear THAT reasoning... 

[bunnyman666]

Vaughn is an innovator for their great ability to live in the past and be successful at it.

[IPv6Freely]

32 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

Vaughn is an innovator for their great ability to live in the past and be successful at it.

LOL.

Vaughn reminds me of Cisco in the IT world. The old industry phrase "nobody ever got fired for buying Cisco" is only going to get you so far, for so long. Eventually people move on. 

[ULTIMA]

I'll give credit to Vaughn on that new Ventus pad but that kinna pad should have been out long time ago.

[Murray]

I agree with @ULTIMA, weight reduction is, and should always be, considered material evolution. (A side thought to this, what would be considered "too light"? I've been lucky enough to try the G3's, Ventus, 1S, EFlex 3's, and current Brian's models...and, while I Loved how light the G3's were, I preferred the few extra ounces of the GN3tiks, and more importantly, the balance of weight distribution).

Anyways.

My votes went to Brian's, Warrior, and Factory Mad.

Brian's has been a constant force of innovation, which is something I can say firsthand. I've used their gear since the Alite days, and the evolution over the past...17 years or more has been crazy. Truthfully, there was a real period of iffy-ness in design, with the Thief/Demon*/etc lines (I really didn't like the design, etc ), but their current offerings, culminating with the Optiks, are incredible. I think the best aspect of Brian's gear is, while they may not always be the lightest (but they'll always be near the top of the class), each piece of gear feels ABSOLUTELY premium. They really are the cadillac of gear.

Warrior's gear is amazing. They're constantly pushing themselves to be at the cutting edge of design and functionality. Every generation of gear sets the bar for overall weight - I remember my first skate with the G3's and being absolutely baffled at how light everything felt, even near the end of the game. The bindingless design is great, and while playing the puck, the glove gripped the stick better than any other I've used.

My third vote went to Factory MAD. A lot of people would've picked Bauer... but what's a 1S/2S aside from a VERY hard-foamed pad covered in fondant icing (jokes, jokes). The 1S blocker was a blocker, and I REALLY didn't care for the glove. Factory MAD actually seems to be innovative - the unique one piece knee block/calf wrap is VERY intriguing to me, as is the floating tee. Think of how many goalies you know have sent their gloves to Dennis to rework the internals and float the T...and then how many have tried to do it themselves. The quality and concepts really speak for themselves. If I had the chance, I'd LOVE to try a set of FM gear.

[Puckducker]

2 hours ago, ULTIMA said:

Sorta sneaky? They never spent a penny on R & D. They'd get their hands on a pad, dissect it and figure out how to make it their own and "better". And I'm sorry to say for those out there that are frugal, but if you're a penny pincher, you'll be that guy to back Simmons on their products. But they didn't invent anything and in my opinion deserve no credit for any contribution or participation with regards to anything innovative to the goalie pad or any goalie gear.

I normally wouldn't be this outlandish or straight forward about it. But I remember their advertisements on their website sticking it to the competitors with things like "Do you pay less than X$ for Canadian made gear" ? The balls on those guys....I apologize for getting somewhat off topic.

So I'll be "that guy" to back up Simmons. Their stuff was very high quality for a very affordable price. And growing up I considered myself fortunate that, while we couldn't afford to put me in Vaughn or Brian's gear, with Simmons I could still be playing in just as high quality equipment. 

So, yeah they are aggressive on marketing their pricing. That's their primary edge. It's the reason why my parents would drive the 3 1/2 hour round trip to the shop in Fort Eerie, rather than just pick up some used gear at Play it Again. 

That being said, no I wouldn't really say they are innovative as a company, but I wouldn't write them off as cheap knockoff's either. To this day, Simmons gear is the high bar to me for quality. I just assumed after years of playing in Simmons, that goalie gear is just stuff that's built to last forever. 

[RichMan]

Bauer, Brian's and Warrior.

They managed to break from tradition and look outside the box. They sought to create something new but still useful and compatible for almost any user. It's not just bells and whistles, it's "how can we make it easier, still functional and remain protective all at once".

If I had to pick just one, I'd pick Pete Smith/Warrior. He's been pushing the envelope since his beginnings in the business and set the standard for others to do the same...go where no goalie gear manufacturer has gone before

[IPv6Freely]

1 hour ago, RichMan said:

Bauer, Brian's and Warrior.

They managed to break from tradition and look outside the box. They sought to create something new but still useful and compatible for almost any user. It's not just bells and whistles, it's "how can we make it easier, still functional and remain protective all at once".

If I had to pick just one, I'd pick Pete Smith/Warrior. He's been pushing the envelope since his beginnings in the business and set the standard for others to do the same...go where no goalie gear manufacturer has gone before

I agree with you on Smith. I don’t like a lot of it (or warrior pads in general) but there’s no question he’s been pushing limits for a long time!

[Chenner29]

Fun topic, I'll take a stab. 

Definition of "innovator" - someone that sets an industry standard.  Think outside vertical rolls on pads, calf wedges, knee cradles, color on pads, Jacques Plante with the mask...etc

I'm gonna keep this to stuff I know that's more recent (this list could go on forever if we tried to ID who did the first leather toe bridge with skate lace, etc).

Gotta start with Brian's over the last couple of years.

• Pretty sure they were first on the market with a new material to help with sliding ("Primo"); I don't recall it being heavily marketed or used though.
• First brand to make liberal use of velcro and elastic strapping ("Smart Straps")
• Ever since they came back from bankruptcy, they have been on fire. Every line they have put out since then has been progressively better IMO

Bauer - mainly with material experimentation. 

• The way I see it, CORTech changed the game for sliding material - they forced the rest of the market to develop something to compete.
• Printable graphics
• CURV composites in skates and reinforcement in key areas on gear
• Cowlingless goalie skate

You know, I voted for Warrior over CCM but I want to change my vote to CCM (disclosure: I'm a CCM/Koho homer at heart):

• Creating designated, distinctive graphics for pro endorsees to sell pads (Roy, Potvin, Brodeur - every other manufacture in the 90s had generic graphics)
• they started the trend of the oversized blocker sidewall with the Koho 530
• to my memory, they were the first to use mesh in the finger stalls of the blocker
• their blocker and current knee block with the strap-through bump are the current "best in class" IMO
• After the Vaughn 5500, I'd say the 590 is one of the most cloned break patterns amongst pro return gear
• first to market cowlings with removable steel
• first to market a stiff face pad to intentionally create big rebounds

[TheGoalNet]

@ULTIMA @Puckducker

to be clear, I would not vote Simmons in my top 5, but I was making the case that could be made. Puckducker has a similar stance I think 

Ultima, if you don't agree, that's okay. However I'm a big believer in giving credit where it's due. Simmons has been in business forever and that's not an accident. Don't apologize for having a strong opinion. Candor and personal experience is the service we offer to the #GoalieCrowd 

IMO, So Simmons...

Was their marketing over the top? Yup

Did they blatantly rip off a major company with anything they launched? Yes. Is there a question of ethics there? Absolutely.  Did the ethical issues keep people away? Yes, myself included once I paid for my own gear. I had some Simmons as a kid on my parents dime. 

But objectively looking at them...

Did they innovative gear Made in Canada at an affordable price while the trend is to offshore the expensive stuff? Yup (you may not like how they did it, I get it) 

Did they take gear from the biggest companies in the world and make it "better" by fixing so obvious product over sights? Yes. Simmons was the first place I can think off to offer skate lace pockets stock! 

Was Simmons at the forefront of direct to consumer sales? Yes. I don't think it's an accident their model has been loosely copied by Passau and Factory Mad 

Is Simmons the only place that allows you to have in Canada gear tomorrow at SR level pricing? Another minor  thing they pioneered 

Lastly, I think you'd be truely disappointed if you saw what R&D entails at certain companies. It's not a bunch of PhDs sitting around and reinventing the goalie pad. It's let's try this tweak, build a few test sets, and confirm if it works. It's more than Simmons does, but their process probably isn't that far off... 

[bunnyman666]

52 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

@ULTIMA @Puckducker

to be clear, I would not vote Simmons in my top 5, but I was making the case that could be made. Puckducker has a similar stance I think 

Ultima, if you don't agree, that's okay. However I'm a big believer in giving credit where it's due. Simmons has been in business forever and that's not an accident. Don't apologize for having a strong opinion. Candor and personal experience is the service we offer to the #GoalieCrowd 

IMO, So Simmons...

Was their marketing over the top? Yup

Did they blatantly rip off a major company with anything they launched? Yes. Is there a question of ethics there? Absolutely.  Did the ethical issues keep people away? Yes, myself included once I paid for my own gear. I had some Simmons as a kid on my parents dime. 

But objectively looking at them...

Did they innovative gear Made in Canada at an affordable price while the trend is to offshore the expensive stuff? Yup (you may not like how they did it, I get it) 

Did they take gear from the biggest companies in the world and make it "better" by fixing so obvious product over sights? Yes. Simmons was the first place I can think off to offer skate lace pockets stock! 

Was Simmons at the forefront of direct to consumer sales? Yes. I don't think it's an accident their model has been loosely copied by Passau and Factory Mad 

Is Simmons the only place that allows you to have in Canada gear tomorrow at SR level pricing? Another minor  thing they pioneered 

Lastly, I think you'd be truely disappointed if you saw what R&D entails at certain companies. It's not a bunch of PhDs sitting around and reinventing the goalie pad. It's let's try this tweak, build a few test sets, and confirm if it works. It's more than Simmons does, but their process probably isn't that far off... 

The Japanese auto makers all got their starts benchmarking and nearly copying other cars. It’s just the way things were.  Simmons is no different than most car makers- dissect a product, make improvements, put it in a newer, shinier exterior and market. And yes- most do their R&D this way; it’s just that the lineage of Simmons’ designs is a bit more clear.  

[TheGoalNet]

The early Lefebvre pads were reproductions of Bourdon pads. . . 

[Hills]

If my Brian's Order ever goes through... My top 3 is the 3 sets I own/ordered.

[TheGoalNet]

Hi All, Just wanted to give this bump. Decided to do something with this great data... 

If you don't share your thoughts or have new ideas, please chime in!!! 

[MTH]

Bauer - for their sticks. Not since the Curtis Curve has anyone really played with the gaolie stick design as much as Bauer (and Nike Bauer) have in the past years.

Sure we've seen Eagle claws, and composite TPS sticks...