Wall Finland vs Wall USA vs Victory

[BonesDT]

Can anyone shed light on what’s going on with these companies. I’m interested in the W4 aka V4 mask. I read somewhere that they split up and Wall USA branches off. They now seem to be called Victory, but “Wall USA” masks are still currently sold by Pure Hockey, Perani’s and Sports etc.  Also the “Wall USA” W4 seems to have standard glued in padding while the Wall Finland W4 and the Victory V4 have the removable waffle velcroed padding.  To confuse things further, the Victory Instagram account first seems to boast they are made in Finland then boasts they are USA made.  Then they have a second Victory account under the name GoalieBuilt. 

My head is spinning. I just want to buy the mask. 

[raucebyalien]

Ok from my own sketchy knowledge the situation was this:
 

• Wall Finland is the original company from the early 2000s, their first mask was the ProActiv a plastic / rubber hybrid that was used by a bunch of pro guys (Rask, Rinne and a lot of Finnish and Scandinavian pros) and has the old Jofa-style waffle internal padding. That mask is now the Wall Finland W4

• Wall USA was separate company licensing the Wall name for the US market, whilst their fibreglass / kevlar masks were comparable to the Wall Finland W8, W10 etc, their version of the W4 is a completely different shape to the Finnish W4 and instead adopts the shape of the more expensive masks albeit with a plastic / rubber hybrid construction. The USA W4 also came is short or long chin options.

• Wall Finland and Wall USA had a fall out over whatever the licensing agreement was, or construction methods or something, so Wall USA is now Victory. In the aftermath of the fall out one of the guys from Wall Finland went on facebook to say that none of the Wall USA / Victory masks should be carrying the 'made in Finland' stickers that the Finnish masks have as it was essentially a completely separate enterprise that they had nothing to do with!

Happy to be corrected by anyone who has more in depth knowledge. I'd imagine Pure Hockey / Perani's etc are just carrying left over inventory still branded Wall USA, it'd seem that since adopting the Victory name, the USA W4 now also has the Jofa-style waffle padding too.

[BonesDT]

Thanks for that info. I reached out to Quik (the official North American distributor of Wall Finland masks) but they never got back to me. I’m going to reach out to Victory next. 

I didn’t realize the waffle style was an old style. Any thoughts on it?

Any thoughts on the W4/V4 mask in general?  I know it’s “plastic”, but I don’t subscribe to the internet’s “widowmaker” school of thought and I think plastic masks have their benefits. 

[RichMan]

I read into the story and it was a real soap opera, hence why my interest in the company (both) ended. I'm gonna focus on some homegrown goodness with Sportmask. 

[cwarnar]

Victory is related to Doug Wager at WlzHead... Hence why Sparks is using a Victory as he was in a Wall W8 prior 

[raucebyalien]

On 11/27/2019 at 4:39 PM, BonesDT said:

Thanks for that info. I reached out to Quik (the official North American distributor of Wall Finland masks) but they never got back to me. I’m going to reach out to Victory next. 

I didn’t realize the waffle style was an old style. Any thoughts on it?

Any thoughts on the W4/V4 mask in general?  I know it’s “plastic”, but I don’t subscribe to the internet’s “widowmaker” school of thought and I think plastic masks have their benefits. 

I've not used one, but I've held and tried on a couple in shops in Finland - they're light and well made, and I also like the shape that sorta reminds me of 90s Lefebvre masks! The finish is also unique, its hard but because its rubberised you can push your thumbnail into it - same sort of feel if you did the same to a puck. 

I also don't subscribe to the 'everything plastic = widow maker' school of thought, I believe that Wall's initial idea was that the plastic / rubber composite would absorb and disperse impact rather than transfer it directly to the head as would be the case with a stiff mask. But eventually they had a lot of pro's requesting stiff masks so incorporated fibreglass and kevlar models too. 

[bunnyman666]

After the ear ringer I got yesterday from a very frustrated head hunter, I am jumping into the Victory helmets fray. I just ordered a clear one with black padding. If I can post pix, I will; however- I have had hella trouble posting pix as of late.

[Punisher Goalie]

59 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

After the ear ringer I got yesterday from a very frustrated head hunter, I am jumping into the Victory helmets fray. I just ordered a clear one with black padding. If I can post pix, I will; however- I have had hella trouble posting pix as of late.

@bunnyman666 if you have a scale, I would be very interested in knowing the weight of that mask when you get yours in.

[bunnyman666]

22 minutes ago, Punisher Goalie said:

@bunnyman666 if you have a scale, I would be very interested in knowing the weight of that mask when you get yours in.

Of course!

This is the first time I have been hit so hard that my ears rang for more than a few seconds. 

The likelihood of facing zingers like that are pretty low for me, but after that one in particular, I made the decision that I needed a change in direction as far as helmets go. Many have said the Wall/Victory style of mask does not ring your ears.  I hope this is true. No doubt that Protechsport makes a fine mask; that is NOT a question. I am not injured, and I don’t have a concussion. But I think there may be more tolerance for some as far as ear ringing; my tolerance is quite low, apparently...

I get a fair amount of minor rings, and this one tipped the scale. I may try a rubberised coating in my Protechsport’s interior later. But if decreased ear ringing comes in at a higher weight, I am fine with it.

[SaveByRichter35]

11 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

Of course!

This is the first time I have been hit so hard that my ears rang for more than a few seconds. 

The likelihood of facing zingers like that are pretty low for me, but after that one in particular, I made the decision that I needed a change in direction as far as helmets go. Many have said the Wall/Victory style of mask does not ring your ears.  I hope this is true. No doubt that Protechsport makes a fine mask; that is NOT a question. I am not injured, and I don’t have a concussion. But I think there may be more tolerance for some as far as ear ringing; my tolerance is quite low, apparently...

I get a fair amount of minor rings, and this one tipped the scale. I may try a rubberised coating in my Protechsport’s interior later. But if decreased ear ringing comes in at a higher weight, I am fine with it.

Odd.  I have had plenty of ear ringers in my Pro's Choice but I have yet to experience anything in my Protechsport.  It's taken quite a few bombs as well.

[bunnyman666]

18 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Odd.  I have had plenty of ear ringers in my Pro's Choice but I have yet to experience anything in my Protechsport.  It's taken quite a few bombs as well.

This was by far the hardest shot I had experienced and it hit me right on the ear, and it smacked me there, as well. There was always a slight metallic sound (which would be a muted ring) when I got hit in the cage, but nothing when I would take a hit to the forehead or other places. That’s what I mean by minor rings. 

This shot was particularly hard as it shattered paint. I can’t post pix for some reason or I would show what this did to my otherwise extremely durable Sean Chiarot paint job. I took hard shots to other places that made noise and only had to wipe off the puck marks. 

It has been said that certain people are more susceptible to the ringing sound and that they would benefit from a rubberised coating on the inside of the helmet. 

Maybe this last incident was just so freakish and it scared me a bit. I know if I would have been in a lesser grade mask, my wife would be posting for me. I could have been hurt BADLY in some helmets with that same shot. I will continue to use my spare Protechsport until my Victory comes. If my main helmet were my only helmet, I would continue to use it until the Victory arrives. 

[bunnyman666]

For some reason, I now can’t edit my posts. I wanted to edit my last post to say that after the big hit, every subsequent hit to the helmet rang my ears, as well. That never happened before, either. I took five hard hits to the dome that session. Come to think of it, I played great but had a shitty day for getting hit in the head. 

[BadAngle41]

I own a W6H and had it for 5 years of solid shots. Purchased it through Wall Finland. It finally cracked a couple months ago so I have moved on to another mask, but have nothing but good things to say about both the Poly shell and their customer service. Petri Karvinen always had quick reaponeses to my inquiries on replacement parts, and I thoroughly loved the it SIX12 padding as he die cut me a kit for my W6. 
Shipping costs etc were high to the states, but there was always a level of comfort I had with going right to the manufacturer. 

[bunnyman666]

32 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

I own a W6H and had it for 5 years of solid shots. Purchased it through Wall Finland. It finally cracked a couple months ago so I have moved on to another mask, but have nothing but good things to say about both the Poly shell and their customer service. Petri Karvinen always had quick reaponeses to my inquiries on replacement parts, and I thoroughly loved the it SIX12 padding as he die cut me a kit for my W6. 
Shipping costs etc were high to the states, but there was always a level of comfort I had with going right to the manufacturer. 

How was the ringing? 

[BadAngle41]

13 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

How was the ringing? 

It didn’t. Just the thud. If you order one from Finland I’d suggest asking for full SIX12 padding and a double bar cat eye. The W6 (now W7) is dramatically thicker in impact areas like the forehead and chin.
I posted somewhere about the comparison in flex etc. between it, a WJD, and a Hackva I have laying around. I’ll see if I can find it and post the link here. 

[BadAngle41]

3 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

I posted somewhere about the comparison in flex etc. between it, a WJD, and a Hackva I have laying around. I’ll see if I can find it and post the link here. 

@bunnyman666 links are below but really the whole Polycarbonate thread...

Initial post...

Flex comparison...

[bunnyman666]

32 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

@bunnyman666 links are below but really the whole Polycarbonate thread...

Initial post...

Flex comparison...

Thanks for the linky.

I have always thought that polycarbonate is only bad if the thinnest material is used or if it was misused. People forget the widow maker was actually not just lexan, but also used some composite material that really wasn’t suited for the purpose in which it was used. The all lexan they switched to is actually better, but just not thick enough. It was a “great on paper” design that probably tested very well in the lab, as well as for the bottom line.

I am actually finding that I want the slight deformation that a well-engineered plastic mask can give me. I do believe if a good padding system is used, the slight deformation could absorb the shock of impact. After the shelling I got on Friday, it made sense to me that I needed to go a different direction. Getting a clear mask was a bonus with this material choice. 

[BadAngle41]

21 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

Thanks for the linky.

I have always thought that polycarbonate is only bad if the thinnest material is used or if it was misused. People forget the widow maker was actually not just lexan, but also used some composite material that really wasn’t suited for the purpose in which it was used. The all lexan they switched to is actually better, but just not thick enough. It was a “great on paper” design that probably tested very well in the lab, as well as for the bottom line.

I am actually finding that I want the slight deformation that a well-engineered plastic mask can give me. I do believe if a good padding system is used, the slight deformation could absorb the shock of impact. After the shelling I got on Friday, it made sense to me that I needed to go a different direction. Getting a clear mask was a bonus with this material choice. 

Yeah... and all of Wall’s are actually clear... just a matter of whether they paint the exterior or not. 

[bunnyman666]

2 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

Yeah... and all of Wall’s are actually clear... just a matter of whether they paint the exterior or not. 

Interesting. Kind of like the early Tuuks were clear and painted black on the inside; for some reason the painted ones were stronger. Strange but true. They then switched to Zytel, I believe, which was a LOT stronger for that application. Oddly enough, it rings back to the right material for the application. 

[BonesDT]

3 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

Yeah... and all of Wall’s are actually clear... just a matter of whether they paint the exterior or not. 

I was told by Victory that the W4/V4 are not clear because they are partially rubber. The V6 is clear because it’s 100% poly. Not sure about the higher numbered masks, aren’t they fiberglass?

[bunnyman666]

22 minutes ago, BonesDT said:

I was told by Victory that the W4/V4 are not clear because they are partially rubber. The V6 is clear because it’s 100% poly. Not sure about the higher numbered masks, aren’t they fiberglass?

Yes they are. 

I thought of a W4, but since this was a rush purchase and I am burning up the card anyway, I may as well buy what I want!

[bunnyman666]

Trying a pro cat eye cage on mine. I got in on the get two cages deal, so mine will ship with a cat eye and a cheater will come along later. 

I’m chuffed at getting a new helmet!

[BadAngle41]

21 hours ago, BonesDT said:

I was told by Victory that the W4/V4 are not clear because they are partially rubber. The V6 is clear because it’s 100% poly. Not sure about the higher numbered masks, aren’t they fiberglass?

Yes... the higher numbers or more rigid shells out of layered materials. I was also speaking specifically to Wall Finland's product line when I said all of the W6(W7) are actually clear... some just have a coat of paint.

[bunnyman666]

On 12/1/2019 at 12:06 PM, BadAngle41 said:

Yeah... and all of Wall’s are actually clear... just a matter of whether they paint the exterior or not. 

Mine is being painted clear as we speak. They come out frosty, most likely to aid in mechanical adhesion of the paint. There are peel plies in composite building that serve the same purpose for adding more layers to the lay up without sanding.

[MangoRhinehart]

2 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

Mine is being painted clear as we speak. They come out frosty, most likely to aid in mechanical adhesion of the paint. There are peel plies in composite building that serve the same purpose for adding more layers to the lay up without sanding.

Very nice looking.  Something about the clear mask looks cool to me, maybe its the 90s retro clear gameboy/N64 styling. Are you leaving it clear for good?