Knee Rolls Being Phased Out?

[ULTIMA]

At one time, you pretty well couln't get a goalie pad without the knee rolls. But that was a long time ago.

And (very) slowly, more and more goalies have gone to the the flat-faced pads. And even those flat ones are now being constructed for goalies who claim to play "hybrid" or "battlefly" or whatever you wana call it. And as of right now Bauer no longer offers a traditional knee roll pad and neither does BStar...well....their heritage series is pretty well aimed at, dare I say older goalies? And much of Vaughn's success was built off their Velocity series and I can recall that they were arguably the top knee roll pad company. But now I'm seeing several pro goalies in the Ventus and Velocity XR pads.
 

Have we already begun to see the end of the knee rolls on leg pads? Do you guys think the future or goalie gear will be comprised of 100% flat pads?

[Chenner29]

It's easier to build for the manufacturer, and knee rolls don't really offer much in terms of performance whereas a fully flat faced pad will make it easier for goalies to direct a rebound.

I'm sure the CCM Eflex line will continue to do it as long as Price is under contract/wants knee rolls.

Vaughn is pretty traditional and I can see them keeping it on one of their lines as well.

Who knows, it may come back as goalie trends are cyclical. 

When Giguere was big in the early 00's, everyone wanted a stiff pad that wouldn't bend. Now you see a lot of goalies preferring a softer, flexible pad.

[coopaloop1234]

It was inevitable. Even when I had my V4's, knee rolls were certainly more cosmetic than functional. So while on a functional standpoint they're gone, I really don't think the aesthetic of the knee roll pads will ever go away.

I do think there will always be a market for guys who love the look of the knee rolls without having the old bulbous lumps sticking out. We've seen it on a few lines with the flattened knee rolls (R/GT, Velocity, Eflex) and I really don't think they're going to go anywhere anytime soon. I'm definitely one that prefers the look and while it's not the end all for me if they have them, but if it comes down to the wire, I'll take the faux knee rolls any day.

As for Brian's, can you get the Optiks with knee rolls? I know they'll customize the crap out of anything, but will they add some real/flat knee rolls to them?

[cwarnar]

@Chenner29 nailed it. Knee rolls no longer do anything on a pad... pure aesthetics. 

I was in Smiths and Passat without and. Now with my RGT’s I don’t even notice them.  

[IPv6Freely]

12 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

As for Brian's, can you get the Optiks with knee rolls? I know they'll customize the crap out of anything, but will they add some real/flat knee rolls to them?

Yes you can. 

[RichMan]

I think that the big companies will drop the knee rolls as the majority if not all pro goalies will not see a need for the extra weight. Only place you will be able to get knee rolls will be from the smaller custom guys like Brown, Boddam, Mckenney, Battram, Passau...

I'm surprised they are still around. You could argue the same about the outer rolls. Are they really necessary? At most, a triangular roll can still help keep close in shots from popping over your pad. Other than that, they are just extra weight and can give you wild rebounds in your stance.

Strapping methods has taken a beating as well. There is so much less than when I first started.

Today, it's more about function and technique. How can we make it simpler but still fully protective and functional (logical).

[Chenner29]

3 minutes ago, RichMan said:

I think that the big companies will drop the knee rolls as the majority if not all pro goalies will not see a need for the extra weight. Only place you will be able to get knee rolls will be from the smaller custom guys like Brown, Boddam, Mckenney, Battram, Passau...

I'm surprised they are still around. You could argue the same about the outer rolls. Are they really necessary? At most, a triangular roll can still help keep close in shots from popping over your pad. Other than that, they are just extra weight and can give you wild rebounds in your stance.

Strapping methods has taken a beating as well. There is so much less than when I first started.

Today, it's more about function and technique. How can we make it simpler but still fully protective and functional (logical).

Great point on the straps.

When I first started, 6 or 7 leather straps was the benchmark, and 1 or 2 boot straps was a selling point.

Now it's 1 or zero leather straps and 1 or zero boot straps!

[ULTIMA]

I think most educated goalies (even semi educated) can all agree that the knee roll of a pad has very little function if any left at all. And I must say I dislike when I read online or in a new catalog from whatever company that offers both and try to use fancy words to distinguish a difference in functionality.
 

[IPv6Freely]

I still think they look good though even if not functional. I don’t quite understand the emphasis on weight. I can’t say I envy somebody who can tell the difference between a few grams. 

[mik]

I remember pads without foam core, when knee rolls have their purpose (pads flex at the knee area). Now knee rolls don´t have specific funciton for pad performance, but I realy like the look of pads with knee rolls. I have no problem with flat faced pads (actualy own one set), but knee rolls is just how pad should idealy look from my (estetic) point of view.  

When there are customers for that, companies will make it. Or like Chenner29 said, may come back after some years as design is making circles...  

[estogoalie]

I'm pretty "traditional" but don't care for knee rolls anymore. The V4's I have now have flat-face with double break, same with the Gnetik 2's that I have lined up next. Full flat-face with no breaks I don't like (eg. Ventus)

[Bonesinium]

12 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

I still think they look good though even if not functional. I don’t quite understand the emphasis on weight. I can’t say I envy somebody who can tell the difference between a few grams. 

It’s not just a few grams in total. A few grams here and a few grams there and next thing you know you are talking about a couple of pounds. 

You take two goalies both in equal shape and the guy carrying around multiple pounds less is going to have better stamina. 

But I digress. 

With the technology improvements in the design and materials of the pad construction, knee rolls are mostly obsolete. Knee rolls and the outer roll served particular functions in regards to flexibility and stiffness.  Now the same can be accomplished without either. This is why you are seeing less pads with knee rolls and smaller outer rolls. 

[bunnyman666]

The biggest reason why knee rolls are going away are the unpredictable rebounds. Weight plays some factor.  As silly as it sounds, I can attest to the squirellier rebounds with knee rolls as I play with both knee rolled and flat-faced pads. 

Now- knee rolls do look right, IMO.  A lack of outer roll, vestigial as they are, would look REALLY strange. But they will go away in time like the knee roll as they do not serve a function any longer. 

[cwarnar]

7 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

The biggest reason why knee rolls are going away are the unpredictable rebounds. Weight plays some factor.  As silly as it sounds, I can attest to the squirellier rebounds with knee rolls as I play with both knee rolled and flat-faced pads. 

Now- knee rolls do look right, IMO.  A lack of outer roll, vestigial as they are, would look REALLY strange. But they will go away in time like the knee roll as they do not serve a function any longer. 

I agree. I can’t wait to see the G4 with the shaved outer roll.  I’d also love to see warrior offer the removal of the post wedge as an option. 

Be some decent weight savings I think... right @Kirk3190???

[TheGoalNet]

It's my understanding this is the last generation of CCM Premier and there will be no P3. I don't know if there is an EF4 next year or a melding of the Premier and the EF, like Brian's did with Optik. I am also not sure if the Premier goes away in 2019 or 2020. 

This info is from a TRUSTED source, but not anyone inside CCM. 

[ULTIMA]

3 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

It's my understanding this is the last generation of CCM Premier and there will be no P3. I don't know if there is an EF4 next year or a melding of the Premier and the EF, like Brian's did with Optik. I am also not sure if the Premier goes away in 2019 or 2020. 

This info is from a TRUSTED source, but not anyone inside CCM. 

That's very interesting. The Premier family was a goalie game changer.

When they had the X-Pulse family and Premier, it was perfect. My opinion anyway.

[Scott]

On 2017-12-14 at 4:52 PM, Chenner29 said:

It's easier to build for the manufacturer, and knee rolls don't really offer much in terms of performance whereas a fully flat faced pad will make it easier for goalies to direct a rebound.

I'm sure the CCM Eflex line will continue to do it as long as Price is under contract/wants knee rolls.

Vaughn is pretty traditional and I can see them keeping it on one of their lines as well.

Who knows, it may come back as goalie trends are cyclical. 

When Giguere was big in the early 00's, everyone wanted a stiff pad that wouldn't bend. Now you see a lot of goalies preferring a softer, flexible pad.

I currently use the Vaughn 2300 pads, they have “knee rolls” but I think they’re actually just three thin pieces of HD foam....I think they’re just for asthetics but that’s fine with me cause I like them

[Chenner29]

10 hours ago, Bonesinium said:

It’s not just a few grams in total. A few grams here and a few grams there and next thing you know you are talking about a couple of pounds. 

You take two goalies both in equal shape and the guy carrying around multiple pounds less is going to have better stamina. 

But I digress. 

With the technology improvements in the design and materials of the pad construction, knee rolls are mostly obsolete. Knee rolls and the outer roll served particular functions in regards to flexibility and stiffness.  Now the same can be accomplished without either. This is why you are seeing less pads with knee rolls and smaller outer rolls. 

Yep - the difference between my Eflex 1s and Keneskys is night and day. 

Shaving a couple ounces off by going with a flat face and eliminating leather straps can add up to a few pounds.  Think of all the work and abuse we are putting our bodies through during a game - not just the save movement but recovery as well.

I'd imagine most of the folks on here aren't really playing competitive/travel hockey anymore.  The weight savings goes a long way to being able to get back up in the morning without any (well, minimizing) any soreness and pain.

[cwarnar]

Halak added them to his new optiks... retro graphic too

[Kirk3190]

On 12/15/2017 at 1:32 PM, cwarnar said:

I agree. I can’t wait to see the G4 with the shaved outer roll.  I’d also love to see warrior offer the removal of the post wedge as an option. 

Be some decent weight savings I think... right @Kirk3190???

Removing the post wedge would shave minimal weight from the pad.  I know a few EU pros have done it and I believe one member of TGN website has too.  Takes a bit of careful work to remove it completely without damaging the pad.  It would be rather simple though to just remove the foams inside of it.  Still, in my opinion, not something that would bring much benefit.