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Over rotation of pads


lukehuizenga
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2 minutes ago, lukehuizenga said:

I’ve been having a problem with my one pads over rotating when i go down in the butterfly. It’s rotating backwards which leaves a gap on the ice and prevents sliding. Was wondering if you could help solve this?

Which pads are you using?
What's your toe tie set up?
What's your strapping set up?
 

Pics for all of the above would be a massive help.

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  • 3 months later...

On my new pads I’m running the bauer prof strap tight, knee to knee strap at the top, and tight upper and lower calf outer straps. No boot strap and I have 8 knots on my toe ties but my pad still rotates when I go down but its not coming all the way back. I want my pads as tight as possible so do I add more knots or loosen something?

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11 hours ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

On my new pads I’m running the bauer prof strap tight, knee to knee strap at the top, and tight upper and lower calf outer straps. No boot strap and I have 8 knots on my toe ties but my pad still rotates when I go down but its not coming all the way back. I want my pads as tight as possible so do I add more knots or loosen something?

Elastic toe ties might help provide a consistent level of tension. Maybe this will also help @lukehuizenga.

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14 hours ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

On my new pads I’m running the bauer prof strap tight, knee to knee strap at the top, and tight upper and lower calf outer straps. No boot strap and I have 8 knots on my toe ties but my pad still rotates when I go down but its not coming all the way back. I want my pads as tight as possible so do I add more knots or loosen something?

The tighter you make the leg channel, the more friction the pad experiences when it tries to rotate. This isn't an issue when you butterfly, because the shape of the pad, the force of your body, and the contact with the ice all combine to rotate the pad around your leg. But when you lift your legs up, the only thing acting to re-center the pad on your leg is gravity.

If you want the pad to rotate back when your leg lifts up, I'd suggest loosening the calf straps, and maybe the professor strap as well.

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4 hours ago, CJ Boiss said:

The tighter you make the leg channel, the more friction the pad experiences when it tries to rotate. This isn't an issue when you butterfly, because the shape of the pad, the force of your body, and the contact with the ice all combine to rotate the pad around your leg. But when you lift your legs up, the only thing acting to re-center the pad on your leg is gravity.

If you want the pad to rotate back when your leg lifts up, I'd suggest loosening the calf straps, and maybe the professor strap as well.

And toe ties. That's why the elastic ones do a trick here. They are stretched when the pad rotates and they want the pad back to neutral position in front of your leg.

Some of the tight strapping or gear connected together is preventing the rotation back to "neutral position". What I mean by gear is like knee pads being edged and hanging against pads corners or whatever. Really hard to tell without seeing into the close and minor details.

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20 hours ago, CJ Boiss said:

The tighter you make the leg channel, the more friction the pad experiences when it tries to rotate. This isn't an issue when you butterfly, because the shape of the pad, the force of your body, and the contact with the ice all combine to rotate the pad around your leg. But when you lift your legs up, the only thing acting to re-center the pad on your leg is gravity.

If you want the pad to rotate back when your leg lifts up, I'd suggest loosening the calf straps, and maybe the professor strap as well.

Do I loosen at the top or the bottom for better rotation? (As in at the knee or closer to the ankle)

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2 hours ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

Do I loosen at the top or the bottom for better rotation? (As in at the knee or closer to the ankle)

I would gradually loosen the entire leg channel bit by bit, until either the the pad is rotating the way you want, or you identify precisely where the most friction is. Do some butterflies, some crease movements and really focus on how the pad feels when it rotates around your leg. Take some time at the start or end of practice, make some adjustments, and then immediately test them.

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On 3/12/2022 at 9:03 AM, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

On my new pads I’m running the bauer prof strap tight, knee to knee strap at the top, and tight upper and lower calf outer straps. No boot strap and I have 8 knots on my toe ties but my pad still rotates when I go down but its not coming all the way back. I want my pads as tight as possible so do I add more knots or loosen something?

Less knots IMO

How many inches from your toe bridge to the last knot?

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On 3/13/2022 at 3:00 AM, CJ Boiss said:

The tighter you make the leg channel, the more friction the pad experiences when it tries to rotate. This isn't an issue when you butterfly, because the shape of the pad, the force of your body, and the contact with the ice all combine to rotate the pad around your leg. But when you lift your legs up, the only thing acting to re-center the pad on your leg is gravity.

If you want the pad to rotate back when your leg lifts up, I'd suggest loosening the calf straps, and maybe the professor strap as well.

What is the professor strap?

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27 minutes ago, Rebel_royal said:

What is the professor strap?

The professor strap, coined that way as Ben Scrivens (aka the Professor) was the first one to popularize it, is a strap that goes just below the knee that's used to get a more connected feel with one's pad while simultaneously not affecting rotation or how loose you can wear other portions of the pad.

It's been gaining popularity as of late as is a standard option on the SLR line from Vaughn.

762174606_ProfessorStrap-Scrivens.jpg.beb95558a4176031ecffd960d773be3a.thumb.jpg.d1ad6dbae3499f6141478f69f851555a.jpg

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On 3/14/2022 at 7:05 AM, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

I will have to measure later but in the past the knots created more rotation that’s why I started doing them. I will try taking a few off.

How do knots on toe laces create more rotation?  What do you mean here?

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4 minutes ago, seagoal said:

How do knots on toe laces create more rotation?  What do you mean here?

The pad isn’t so tight to your skate so the pad moves free of the skate essentially allowing it to turn back and forth regardless of what the skate is doing.

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Just now, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

The pad isn’t so tight to your skate so the pad moves free of the skate essentially allowing it to turn back and forth regardless of what the skate is doing.

Gotcha.  They allow rotation without restriction.  Of course, the inverse of that is they also don't pull the pads back to center when you return to your feet.

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6 minutes ago, seagoal said:

Gotcha.  They allow rotation without restriction.  Of course, the inverse of that is they also don't pull the pads back to center when you return to your feet.

Yeah…

It worked on my two last sets of pads,

Edited by A.YOUNGoalie13
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16 minutes ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

Yeah…

It worked on my two last sets of pads,

Well, something worked, but it couldn't have been the toe ties with 8 knots.  There is not really a scenario where toe laces with 8 knots will force pads back to center when you return to your feet.  That doesn't make sense.  That's not really something that changes with context. 

That much slack with that many knots is functionally about the same as having no toe attachment at all.

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30 minutes ago, seagoal said:

Well, something worked, but it couldn't have been the toe ties with 8 knots.  There is not really a scenario where toe laces with 8 knots will force pads back to center when you return to your feet.  That doesn't make sense.  That's not really something that changes with context. 

That much slack with that many knots is functionally about the same as having no toe attachment at all.

I see your point. On my old pads I had 6 but what you said applies there too. What do you suggest I change? I have these strapped the same as my old pads.

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10 minutes ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

I see your point. On my old pads I had 6 but what you said applies there too. What do you suggest I change? I have these strapped the same as my old pads.

The responses so far in here have covered it.  Your pads are not coming back to center and over-rotating, and, you have rendered your toe ties useless because of too much slack.  What do toe ties do? They connect your skates to your pads so that where your skates go, they pull the pads with them.  This was the genius of bungee toe ties: tight as a default but loose when you need it for movement.

The solution is simple: you need tighter connection with your toe ties.

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48 minutes ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

I see your point. On my old pads I had 6 but what you said applies there too. What do you suggest I change? I have these strapped the same as my old pads.

FWIW I have 2.5" of slack in my toe laces from the base of the toe bridge to the last knot that runs against the skate
One set of double knots is about 1/2" from the bridge, and the next set of double knots is an inch from the first set.

The skate lace holes are also inset on my toe bridge

8 knots seems like a lot.  If you're wearing your pads "as tight as possible" there may be something restricting them rotating back

Keep in mind when you drop, you're exerting force down with your knees to get your pads to rotate out. 
When you get back up, there's nothing really rotating them back except your toe ties and the weight of the pads themselves

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