Was all the emphasis on scoring designed for gambling on the sport?

[ilyazhito]

On 4/4/2022 at 1:00 PM, bunnyman666 said:

It really doesn’t when you get right down to it. If star players’ brains became porridge, I am certain there would be more emphasis to eliminate fighting. As it is, it’s not the stars (except Landeskog) throwing down. McDavid doesn’t want to ruin his manicure.

I agree. While the enforcers as a class are gone (with a few exceptions, such as Zach Kassian), because there is no need for such one-dimensional players in modern hockey, the guys who do fight today are lower-line forwards and defencemen. The league won't care about them unless it starts getting lawsuits about concussions. Then it will ban fighting and institute serious punishments for it, at least as a PR move. 

[bunnyman666]

7 hours ago, ilyazhito said:

I agree. While the enforcers as a class are gone (with a few exceptions, such as Zach Kassian), because there is no need for such one-dimensional players in modern hockey, the guys who do fight today are lower-line forwards and defencemen. The league won't care about them unless it starts getting lawsuits about concussions. Then it will ban fighting and institute serious punishments for it, at least as a PR move. 

I have played shinny with a few former NHL enforcers. Most of these could mop the floor with the local hotshots. Most of them were supremely talented, but they needed to stand out, so they’d fight in camp. Of course instead of working on stick handling, they would practise fighting. But no doubt, their stick handling and shot can make people look silly.

[bunnyman666]

One other thought on fighting: as long as contact is allowed, the potential of fighting will exist, and I am not certain that either the contemporary or grizzled fan is willing to see contact leave the game. 

[creasecollector]

12 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

I have played shinny with a few former NHL enforcers. Most of these could mop the floor with the local hotshots. Most of them were supremely talented, but they needed to stand out, so they’d fight in camp. Of course instead of working on stick handling, they would practise fighting. But no doubt, their stick handling and shot can make people look silly.

It's true. Most-likely these NHL Enforcers were the "skill guys" on their respective teams growing up and were not always true enforcers all the time (some didn't fight at all). As they advanced through the various leagues, they had to reinvent themselves on the ice to make it to the NHL. It's the way it works sometimes to live the dream

[bunnyman666]

13 hours ago, creasecollector said:

It's true. Most-likely these NHL Enforcers were the "skill guys" on their respective teams growing up and were not always true enforcers all the time (some didn't fight at all). As they advanced through the various leagues, they had to reinvent themselves on the ice to make it to the NHL. It's the way it works sometimes to live the dream

Some of the gooniest guys (by reputation) I have played with were great skaters and even better puck handlers. And the ones who looked like they hadn’t missed a meal, snack, 12 pack and midnight snack were pretty fast. You’d never know it if you judged them by physical appearance and age! One even broke out his pack of Camels! 

[MTH]

Hardest shot I was ever hit with came off the stick of Frank 'The Animal' Bialowas.

He was years retired. Showed up to play in sweats and a flannel with an old canvas bag of gear.

Heavy shot. Felt like I was hit with a cannon ball.

Edited April 11, 2022 by MTH

[Fullright]

5 hours ago, MTH said:

Hardest shot I was ever hit with came off the stick of Frank 'The Animal' Bialowas.

He was years retired. Showed up to play in sweats and a flannel with an old canvas bag of gear.

Heavy shot. Felt like I was hit with a cannon ball.

 

That is awesome, MTH!  There's all the players in The National, who all have a minimum of NHL skill(s), and the rest of us.

[ilyazhito]

Interesting. When I meant that the enforcers were lower-skill players, I meant that relative to other NHL players, not overall.

 

There were players such as Bob Probert and Dave "Tiger" Williams who did more than just amass PIMs. They were also average, if not above average, scorers. Over a 14-year career, Tiger had 3 20-goal seasons and a 30-goal season. Bob Probert had 2 20-goal seasons. Brandon Prust, a more recent enforcer, was an excellent two-way forward who could be found on the penalty kill. Dale Hunter, before he was a coach, scored 323 goals, probably the most for an enforcer. 

That said, most enforcers have not been known for their skills outside of fighting. As the league cracks down more on mass confrontations, and the salary cap requires teams to look for younger, multidimensional players to stay compliant, the enforcer will not survive for much longer. Even players who fight need to have some other skill set to stay in the league. This can include winning faceoffs, above average defensive play, the ability to score, or set up scoring chances consistently. An enforcer without any of these abilities at the NHL will be a salary cap liability, and less likely to be signed. Enforcers are also a risk for GMs, because their hard-hitting styles of play may lead them to be suspended more often (e.g. Radko Gudas). 

[ilyazhito]

I'm not sure that scoring and gambling are connected, because it is usually the casual fan who likes to see goals. The gambler might situationally bet for or against goals, depending on the book-making criteria used. Increasing scoring might not help a gambler who bets on the point spread, but it might help one who bets on total goals. 

[bunnyman666]

18 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

I'm not sure that scoring and gambling are connected, because it is usually the casual fan who likes to see goals. The gambler might situationally bet for or against goals, depending on the book-making criteria used. Increasing scoring might not help a gambler who bets on the point spread, but it might help one who bets on total goals. 

I would say it is only from the aspect of more side-betting. American Football and Basketball are the ultimate gambler sports for all of the side bets. More scoring may attract the casual fan, but with gambling, it increases all sorts of betting scenarios. 

[MTH]

Arena Football League betting is the best. Are they still around?

[estogoalie]

On 4/1/2022 at 7:23 PM, The Teal Terror said:

I’m a big time Rögle BK fan of the SHL, watched a game last night as it’s the playoffs. The crowd was so pumped, full capacity and behind the team 100%. So much more atmospheric than the NHL is, or until it’s at least round 2 of the playoffs at least.

In Europe, hockey is less "commercialized" and you get more true fans at the games (altho less of them) compared to NHL. I've been to quite a few NHL games and seen many people in the stands who barely know anything about the game or the team. For them going to a game is just going out, or something to do, etc. 

The Swedish league is really good quality too, best in Europe IMO. I was watching some games here and there this season, until Russia attacked Ukraine, then I lost half my channels (I had a Ukrainian satellite TV package). So now I'm just watching the Swiss league again, which is OK, but nowhere near the Swedes. The Ukranian league was fun to watch too because it was about the level I used to play, about Swiss 3.Liga or so, and hardly any fans, LOL. 

[The Teal Terror]

3 minutes ago, estogoalie said:

In Europe, hockey is less "commercialized" and you get more true fans at the games (altho less of them) compared to NHL. I've been to quite a few NHL games and seen many people in the stands who barely know anything about the game or the team. For them going to a game is just going out, or something to do, etc. 

The Swedish league is really good quality too, best in Europe IMO. I was watching some games here and there this season, until Russia attacked Ukraine, then I lost half my channels (I had a Ukrainian satellite TV package). So now I'm just watching the Swiss league again, which is OK, but nowhere near the Swedes. The Ukranian league was fun to watch too because it was about the level I used to play, about Swiss 3.Liga or so, and hardly any fans, LOL. 

Good stuff. I’m also watching the DEL too, not on level with the swedes quite. But the passion is equally there. And hey Ho, Justin Pogge is my teams goalie! That made me laugh, he’s doing good tho!

[estogoalie]

3 minutes ago, The Teal Terror said:

Good stuff. I’m also watching the DEL too, not on level with the swedes quite. But the passion is equally there. And hey Ho, Justin Pogge is my teams goalie! That made me laugh, he’s doing good tho!

I've been to a few DHL games, I'm not sure if they are really dedicated hockey fans tho. I think Germans also just like to go out, but they like to drink beer, bang drums, and sing loud songs while they do it  

[Chenner29]

25 minutes ago, estogoalie said:

In Europe, hockey is less "commercialized" and you get more true fans at the games (altho less of them) compared to NHL. I've been to quite a few NHL games and seen many people in the stands who barely know anything about the game or the team. For them going to a game is just going out, or something to do, etc. 

The Swedish league is really good quality too, best in Europe IMO. I was watching some games here and there this season, until Russia attacked Ukraine, then I lost half my channels (I had a Ukrainian satellite TV package). So now I'm just watching the Swiss league again, which is OK, but nowhere near the Swedes. The Ukranian league was fun to watch too because it was about the level I used to play, about Swiss 3.Liga or so, and hardly any fans, LOL. 

God, I felt this

Went to an Anaheim/Columbus game a few years ago.  Delayed penalty on the Ducks, CBJ pulls their goalie.  Ducks touch up and shoot in the empty net out of frustration.  Lower bowl erupted as if the goal actually counted

20 minutes ago, The Teal Terror said:

Good stuff. I’m also watching the DEL too, not on level with the swedes quite. But the passion is equally there. And hey Ho, Justin Pogge is my teams goalie! That made me laugh, he’s doing good tho!

I skated with this man a few years ago, he's a genuinely nice dude and he still has roots in SoCal (I think he said his wife is from here and she has family still in the area?).  He actually had a few offers to stay in North America (didn't say if they were in the NHL or lower).  Crazy how big and fast these guys are in real life.  Goes to show how hockey doesn't really televise well.  Game looks slower on TV than it does in real life - but for some reason they seem even faster when you're on the same ice surface

[The Teal Terror]

1 hour ago, Chenner29 said:

God, I felt this

Went to an Anaheim/Columbus game a few years ago.  Delayed penalty on the Ducks, CBJ pulls their goalie.  Ducks touch up and shoot in the empty net out of frustration.  Lower bowl erupted as if the goal actually counted

I skated with this man a few years ago, he's a genuinely nice dude and he still has roots in SoCal (I think he said his wife is from here and she has family still in the area?).  He actually had a few offers to stay in North America (didn't say if they were in the NHL or lower).  Crazy how big and fast these guys are in real life.  Goes to show how hockey doesn't really televise well.  Game looks slower on TV than it does in real life - but for some reason they seem even faster when you're on the same ice surface

That’s cool, I remember him in the AHL, but unfortunately Cologne got swept by Berlin, so Pogge’s done for the season! At least he can enjoy the sun now!

As for the frustrated empty net goal? They probably thought it was a touchdown….