Bauer Custom Printing

[TheGoalNet]

@BadAngle41 - marching graphics on mismatched gear is considered a “True Design” custom and has the custom up charge. 

[Max27]

has Bauer finally stopped with a binded sliding edge? they kept the binding exposed on the 2s and 1x still at the thigh for whatever reason and literally every other company doesnt do this.

[BadAngle41]

5 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

@BadAngle41 - marching graphics on mismatched gear is considered a “True Design” custom and has the custom up charge. 

My take from that is the good news that Bauer would do it... more than CCM would do right now. 

The plot thickens...

[TitanG]

It looks to me that Bauer has been surpassed by Passau in terms of printing quality and resolution, even though it appears Bauer has been looking into it for much longer. This may simply be due to a limitation with their pad design, or just a way of keeping it cheaper for mass market.

Here is a good example from Bauer:

[TheGoalNet]

15 hours ago, TitanG said:

It looks to me that Bauer has been surpassed by Passau in terms of printing quality and resolution, even though it appears Bauer has been looking into it for much longer. This may simply be due to a limitation with their pad design, or just a way of keeping it cheaper for mass market.

Here is a good example from Bauer:

@TitanG - I am guessing that it has taken this long for a variety of reasons... (quality control on OD1N gear was probably an all hands on deck situation?)

but here's my opinion on the main one:

I am guessing Bauer sells 2000 pro sets a year at retail. If 500 of those sets turn into printing, that complicates the manufacturing process. That also is a pretty big number.

But contrast, Passau may only build 500 sets a year. If that same portion of 25% of customers converted to printing, that means Passau is doing 125 sets. Passau also has an advantage that every set they make now is made to order and custom graphics don't complicate things much. They are also not battling sharing the printer between retail order orders and custom orders.

Lastly, Bauer doesn't do cut and sew anymore. So all their pads have to go through the printers... is that 5000 sets a year?

I would also speculate Bauer probably did additional testing on things like UV effects or something like that. That's just based on my opinion that large companies test more things before launching new products.

This is NOT a knock on Passau. It's amazing they are offering this technology at a great price. There's just a reality it's harder for Bauer to scale it.

[TitanG]

6 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

@TitanG - I am guessing that it has taken this long for a variety of reasons... (quality control on OD1N gear was probably an all hands on deck situation?)

but here's my opinion on the main one:

I am guessing Bauer sells 2000 pro sets a year at retail. If 500 of those sets turn into printing, that complicates the manufacturing process. That also is a pretty big number.

But contrast, Passau may only build 500 sets a year. If that same portion of 25% of customers converted to printing, that means Passau is doing 125 sets. Passau also has an advantage that every set they make now is made to order and custom graphics don't complicate things much. They are also not battling sharing the printer between retail order orders and custom orders.

Lastly, Bauer doesn't do cut and sew anymore. So all their pads have to go through the printers... is that 5000 sets a year?

I would also speculate Bauer probably did additional testing on things like UV effects or something like that. That's just based on my opinion that large companies test more things before launching new products.

This is NOT a knock on Passau. It's amazing they are offering this technology at a great price. There's just a reality it's harder for Bauer to scale it.

Also the printing process is different, from what I understand, between Bauer and Passau. From what I gather Bauer's is more of an actual printing process whereas Passau uses some impregnation techniques. They also use different materials, jenpro for Passau versus CORTech for Bauer.

All I was trying to say is that Bauer has been hyping this idea for 3 or 4 years now (since Lundqvist) and in that time it has allowed other manufacturers (albeit smaller, like Passau and Battram) to catch up or even surpass them (depending on your perspective).

[maxtm30]

On 2/5/2019 at 6:47 PM, Max27 said:

has Bauer finally stopped with a binded sliding edge? they kept the binding exposed on the 2s and 1x still at the thigh for whatever reason and literally every other company doesnt do this.

The 2x doesn't have the binding exposed at the knee, still a binding at the boot though, but wear in the boot area isn't as major as the the knee block.

[TheGoalNet]

22 hours ago, TitanG said:

Also the printing process is different, from what I understand, between Bauer and Passau. From what I gather Bauer's is more of an actual printing process whereas Passau uses some impregnation techniques. They also use different materials, jenpro for Passau versus CORTech for Bauer.

All I was trying to say is that Bauer has been hyping this idea for 3 or 4 years now (since Lundqvist) and in that time it has allowed other manufacturers (albeit smaller, like Passau and Battram) to catch up or even surpass them (depending on your perspective).

Yes, all good points. 

I always like to tie the manufacturing side into things. It’s probably the #1 driver that consumers over look when trying to understand why a product is the way it is. I can almost guarantee there’s a manufacturing/ scaling factor that was a major challenge here 

[maxtm30]

If you guys want to see the depths to which Bauer works in their R&D department I highly recommend this video:  

This is not about goalie gear but gives you a great little tour of their offices and how they work! It’s a great watch!

[coopaloop1234]

20 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Yes, all good points. 

I always like to tie the manufacturing side into things. It’s probably the #1 driver that consumers over look when trying to understand why a product is the way it is. I can almost guarantee there’s a manufacturing/ scaling factor that was a major challenge here 

Yea but your background is in manufacturing. So your hard on for the processes behind everything makes sense.

On 2/22/2019 at 8:33 PM, TitanG said:

So I've seen this set in person. It is neat to see a fully printed set like this but you can tell the technology isn't quite there yet. The whole set has this "whiteout"-esque filter on it that washes out a lot of the colour that you see. From far away it looks fine-ish, up close it really leaves a lot to be desired.

Ultimately it still looks cheap up close.

Also, that set has the embroidery: "No.5 Orange".  The boys in the goal shop there wouldn't confirm if it was made for that strip club or not, but I still got a decent chuckle from it.

[TheGoalNet]

4 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Yea but your background is in manufacturing. So your hard on for the processes behind everything makes sense.

So I've seen this set in person. It is neat to see a fully printed set like this but you can tell the technology isn't quite there yet. The whole set has this "whiteout"-esque filter on it that washes out a lot of the colour that you see. From far away it looks fine-ish, up close it really leaves a lot to be desired.

Ultimately it still looks cheap up close.

Also, that set has the embroidery: "No.5 Orange".  The boys in the goal shop there wouldn't confirm if it was made for that strip club or not, but I still got a decent chuckle from it.

Any chance you snapped some pics up close?

[TheGoalNet]

4 hours ago, maxtm30 said:

If you guys want to see the depths to which Bauer works in their R&D department I highly recommend this video:  

This is not about goalie gear but gives you a great little tour of their offices and how they work! It’s a great watch!

I work somewhere between the world of prototyping and production. I have spent a lot of time at auto companies, aerospace, medical, construction equipment, etc etc 

Bauer and CCM both have very impressive R&D departments. To me, this is the biggest differentiation between them and anyone else in the Industry 

[coopaloop1234]

17 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Any chance you snapped some pics up close?

Nah, I didn't. I can easily grab some though. I'll grab a few tomorrow when I'm getting my skates sharpened.

[goalieThreeOne]

7 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

I work somewhere between the world of prototyping and production. I have spent a lot of time at auto companies, aerospace, medical, construction equipment, etc etc 

Bauer and CCM both have very impressive R&D departments. To me, this is the biggest differentiation between them and anyone else in the Industry 

This is an important point.

Because of their large R&D budget, you see a lot of the more cutting edge improvements come out of the large companies. You might see some of these copied or even slightly improved by the smaller manufacturers. But there's no doubt that large companies, in an effort to compete with each other, are going to be ones that most regularly introduce new and exciting technologies. 

Which kind of invalidates @TitanG's comparison. There absolutely nothing else like CORETech on the market. Every other manufacturer is still relying on Jenpro or even Nylon in their equipment. To compare Bauer's Process A to Passau's Process B is useless even if the end results are intended to be the same. Bauer has its own set of challenges that are vastly different than the set of challenges Passau has to endure. And Bauer, being the larger company and shipping way more equipment that Passau, has a lot more to lose by introducing something defective into the market so it makes sense that with additional complications and a higher production volume, their product improvement might take longer.

At the end of the day though, it's a mute point. Because people have their own biases (which I suspect are in play in this part of the discussion) and preferences. Passau can print the most beautiful pads on Earth, but if you don't like the equipment, you still aren't gonna buy them. Bauer fans have a lot to be excited about with custom printing and I'm glad the option is finally becoming available. Hell, for all we know the delay isn't even about perfecting the process but getting the infrastructure in place. In a sick way, I'm glad they're taking their time to make sure the product is good and aren't releasing it into the market as a knee jerk reaction. I'm also glad Passau exists and that they have a printing process as well for the people that want that from them. Iron sharpens iron, and all ships rise in a harbour.

[TitanG]

39 minutes ago, goalieThreeOne said:

This is an important point.

Because of their large R&D budget, you see a lot of the more cutting edge improvements come out of the large companies. You might see some of these copied or even slightly improved by the smaller manufacturers. But there's no doubt that large companies, in an effort to compete with each other, are going to be ones that most regularly introduce new and exciting technologies. 

Which kind of invalidates @TitanG's comparison. There absolutely nothing else like CORETech on the market. Every other manufacturer is still relying on Jenpro or even Nylon in their equipment. To compare Bauer's Process A to Passau's Process B is useless even if the end results are intended to be the same. Bauer has its own set of challenges that are vastly different than the set of challenges Passau has to endure. And Bauer, being the larger company and shipping way more equipment that Passau, has a lot more to lose by introducing something defective into the market so it makes sense that with additional complications and a higher production volume, their product improvement might take longer.

At the end of the day though, it's a mute point. Because people have their own biases (which I suspect are in play in this part of the discussion) and preferences. Passau can print the most beautiful pads on Earth, but if you don't like the equipment, you still aren't gonna buy them. Bauer fans have a lot to be excited about with custom printing and I'm glad the option is finally becoming available. Hell, for all we know the delay isn't even about perfecting the process but getting the infrastructure in place. In a sick way, I'm glad they're taking their time to make sure the product is good and aren't releasing it into the market as a knee jerk reaction. I'm also glad Passau exists and that they have a printing process as well for the people that want that from them. Iron sharpens iron, and all ships rise in a harbour.

I agree with you that obviously the materials and scale difference between a giant like Bauer and a boutique manufacturer like Passau cause a different result, I was just meaning that if Joe Goalie on the street sees a picture of a printed Bauer and printed Passau pads next to one another, they may prefer the detail on the latter. Obviously it may be more difficult for them to get a Passau set due to the smaller manufacturing capability, and the average person is much more likely to see Bauer anyway.

I applaud Bauer that they decided to do this because if you asked people a few years ago if this would be an option at retail anytime soon, I doubt they would think it possible. I also understand that both companies have put a lot of R&D into it, and I'm sure Bauer has done more if for no other reason than the large manufacturing scale.

I also recall that before any of Bauer, Passau, or Battram had printed graphics, Brian's tried it out way back in 2014 but decided to stick with cut-and-sew (I'm sure that will change soon):

[goalieThreeOne]

12 minutes ago, TitanG said:

I agree with you that obviously the materials and scale difference between a giant like Bauer and a boutique manufacturer like Passau cause a different result, I was just meaning that if Joe Goalie on the street sees a picture of a printed Bauer and printed Passau pads next to one another, they may prefer the detail on the latter. Obviously it may be more difficult for them to get a Passau set due to the smaller manufacturing capability, and the average person is much more likely to see Bauer anyway.

I applaud Bauer that they decided to do this because if you asked people a few years ago if this would be an option at retail anytime soon, I doubt they would think it possible. I also understand that both companies have put a lot of R&D into it, and I'm sure Bauer has done more if for no other reason than the large manufacturing scale.

I also recall that before any of Bauer, Passau, or Battram had printed graphics, Brian's tried it out way back in 2014 but decided to stick with cut-and-sew (I'm sure that will change soon):

Brian's still does it. I forget where I saw it recently but they will do printing and cut and sew on the same pad.

[TitanG]

1 minute ago, goalieThreeOne said:

Brian's still does it. I forget where I saw it recently but they will do printing and cut and sew on the same pad.

Nice, I didn't realize that. I had heard Joz say last summer they weren't using it then.

[goalieThreeOne]

14 hours ago, TitanG said:

Nice, I didn't realize that. I had heard Joz say last summer they weren't using it then.

And I could be mistaken. It all blurs together sometimes. But they are the Custom Goal Company, so I'm sure they'd accommodate whatever you asked for. I imagine they'd use printing for tight details or weird colors. My team logo has gradients, so when we get embroidered gear, they have to turn the gradients into solid fields. If I were to get the logo on my pads with Brian's, they could probably print the gradient zones and stitch the solid zones.

[TheGoalNet]

17 hours ago, TitanG said:

Nice, I didn't realize that. I had heard Joz say last summer they weren't using it then.

Typically it’s fine detail within a bigger cut and sew graphic 

[TitanG]

Just now, TheGoalNet said:

Typically it’s fine detail within a bigger cut and sew graphic 

That makes sense. A mix of both cut-and-sew and printed would probably look best for simpler designs, like the McKenna-style pads from Bauer so far.

[coopaloop1234]

@TheGoalNet

Took a quick pic. You can see the vast difference between the jenpro and printed skin. Everything has this washed out look. 

[cwarnar]

[cwarnar]

They going to be able to fulfill orders???

[Mroy31]

That was my biggest concern with this when I saw it was happening. Not the actual fulfillment, I'm sure M****** will not be involved at all, but the perception of having them attached. 

[cwarnar]

From my local Goalie store... Custom Printing at Retail... FINALLY???  If I ever go 2X I'm totally replicating Caron's Pittsburg Supreme Pros