Double seal technique

[Sean1k]

Hey Guys.I’m working with a goalie coach from the qmjhl here in Quebec and we were discussing various techniques. He has heard very little about the double seal and not sure about it’s technical breakdown. I tried looking on the internet for videos but couldn’t find anything good. Would you have anything you could share with me weather or be a video or technical breakdown? Really appreciate if you can! Thanks

 

About double seal: Russian goalies use it a lot. I know Carter Hart talked about incorporating it in his game as well. Basically wide butterfly with skates on both posts when play is behind the net. You can transition quickly into rvh on either side. Not necessarily a fan of it but it’s something we can teach our high end goalies and if it works for them well great.

 

pic for attention

[coopaloop1234]

Don't think I've heard of the term "double seal" before. But if it's just like you said and keeping both skates on their respective posts when the play is behind the net, then I think I know what you're talking about.

It's a technique that requires a good amount of flexibility, core strength, and the gift of height. Being able to cover both sides while simultaneously being fluid and upright takes a lot of effort that, I think at least, should only be practiced once you have a decent grasp on RVH post play.

I have a strong down game and am very comfortable in the RVH, but I don't have the gift of height. So stretching out to both posts leaves me in a vulnerable position as a lose a lot of strength and quickness in my mobility.

[Max27]

i tried it and i felt like i broke something so i havent tried it since but it requires immense flexibility. I know Varlamov and Vasilevskiy do it a lot, its very much a flexibility thing. Ive got a bigger frame (6"1.5, 175 pounds was what I came up as recently) and I struggle a lot with it. If you can efficently transfer in and out of basically a split when youre in the RVH its a huge thing you can add to your game but if you try it when you either arent warmed up or arent very flexible youre definetley going to pull or hurt something in your body.

[BadAngle41]

4 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Don't think I've heard of the term "double seal" before. But if it's just like you said and keeping both skates on their respective posts when the play is behind the net, then I think I know what you're talking about.

It's a technique that requires a good amount of flexibility, core strength, and the gift of height. Being able to cover both sides while simultaneously being fluid and upright takes a lot of effort that, I think at least, should only be practiced once you have a decent grasp on RVH post play.

I have a strong down game and am very comfortable in the RVH, but I don't have the gift of height. So stretching out to both posts leaves me in a vulnerable position as a lose a lot of strength and quickness in my mobility.

That's all I took from what you wrote.. not that the wasn't pertinent... but you know... 

[coopaloop1234]

38 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

That's all I took from what you wrote.. not that the wasn't pertinent... but you know... 

Please form a line behind @SaveByRichter35 and everyone else requesting fellatio services.

[ThatCarGuy]

I use this a ton in my game as well as have learned to incorporate it to my game even when I'm not on the posts. What that means is I generally leaving my trailing leg in butterfly much farther behind than normal.

[creasecollector]

I'm short, so this is not in the cards for me. However, if not overused, it is a good technique. I haven't heard of the term "double seal", either. I've just used "he has his skates on both posts" to describe it. 

For those who don't understand, here's a pic below. BOB uses it a lot. It makes for a seamless transition to/from/out of the RVH because, well, you're already attached to the post you want to transfer to. 

 

[Sean1k]

7 minutes ago, creasecollector said:

I'm short, so this is not in the cards for me. However, if not overused, it is a good technique. I haven't heard of the term "double seal", either. I've just used "he has his skates on both posts" to describe it. 

For those who don't understand, here's a pic below. BOB uses it a lot. It makes for a seamless transition to/from/out of the RVH because, well, you're already attached to the post you want to transfer to. 

 

Thanks for the pic! For all of us who are short, Dobby did it a ton during the playoffs at only 5’10’’ so flexibility is the major underlying component.

I heard the term double seal on the ingoal magazine podcast as used by Carter Hart to describe this technique 

[Sean1k]

2 hours ago, ThatCarGuy said:

I use this a ton in my game as well as have learned to incorporate it to my game even when I'm not on the posts. What that means is I generally leaving my trailing leg in butterfly much farther behind than normal.

Would you have a pic or video you could share with me and/or a technical breakdown of how you use it?

 

also, I can upload a background picture, but how do you upload an avatar picture on your profile?

[ThatCarGuy]

@Sean1k it took a bit but I found a video of I think what you’re talking about

[RichMan]

As a goalie instructor myself, here is my take on this subject:

I find that, unless you have the leg (wing) span to reach both posts while having little to no 5 hole gap (think Bishop and Rinne), it could be to your full advantage on quick back door plays. Otherwise, I feel that the shorter the goalie, the less effective it can be as you put your legs in a position (outspread) that takes away full control and power of your body transfering from side to side also risking an unusual overload on the groin area, the last place you want to injure yourself as a goalie.

This being said, if you're a freak like Quick and can just about split save on anything and everything, well, why not try. Then again, most of the time on these saves, Quick is left torso down and out of position unable to involve his gloves should there be a pop out or rebound.

Something to think about.

In the end, you want to have a bag full of tricks but you also want to use what makes sense for your body type and abilities. I can't do splits anymore and my b-fly is nowhere near like our @ThatCarGuy, and so I have to adapt my game to my limitations.

@Sean1k let us know how it works for you. Merci.

Rich

[CJ Boiss]

I won't sit back with my toes on either post, but I will drop down into a very wide ready-stance with my feet a few inches off of the posts. As long as I'm tracking the puck guys can't get me on a quick wrap, and if they pass out front I'm on my feet so I can get angle and depth faster than if I was doing a true double-seal.

[ThatCarGuy]

I’ve managed to build up the strength to push off from a wide butterfly with a foot on each post to the top of the crease. 

[southpawtendy48]

I am also short so it would be pretty much impossible for me to do this, but pretty cool to see it being used. just means I have to incorporate a little more skating around those areas

[SaveByRichter35]

On 10/21/2020 at 5:23 PM, coopaloop1234 said:

Please form a line behind @SaveByRichter35 and everyone else requesting fellatio services.

[BadAngle41]

On 10/22/2020 at 10:19 AM, RichMan said:

As a goalie instructor myself, here is my take on this subject:

I find that, unless you have the leg (wing) span to reach both posts while having little to no 5 hole gap (think Bishop and Rinne), it could be to your full advantage on quick back door plays. Otherwise, I feel that the shorter the goalie, the less effective it can be as you put your legs in a position (outspread) that takes away full control and power of your body transfering from side to side also risking an unusual overload on the groin area, the last place you want to injure yourself as a goalie.

This being said, if you're a freak like Quick and can just about split save on anything and everything, well, why not try. Then again, most of the time on these saves, Quick is left torso down and out of position unable to involve his gloves should there be a pop out or rebound.

Something to think about.

In the end, you want to have a bag full of tricks but you also want to use what makes sense for your body type and abilities. I can't do splits anymore and my b-fly is nowhere near like our @ThatCarGuy, and so I have to adapt my game to my limitations.

@Sean1k let us know how it works for you. Merci.

Rich

 

On 10/22/2020 at 12:58 PM, ThatCarGuy said:

I’ve managed to build up the strength to push off from a wide butterfly with a foot on each post to the top of the crease. 

Great point on keeping a bag of tricks @RichMan. Over use of any one technique won’t take long to figure out. That said... while not a giant in the net what I think is lost a lot of times when people talk about Quick’s flexibility is that he is 6’1”. So by no means is he small. 
What is also brought to mind, and I haven’t looked up a clip, but Vasy made a huge save in the playoffs this year with an incredible push while fully extended. That’s real freak stuff. Generating power at full extension. 
The technique being described here seems more theatrics and less like something you’d use all the time. “Hey look what I can do.” type stuff. Puck behind the net gets pushed to the top of the circle (or worse the slot) and you’re stuck in this position... chances of popping out of it and getting set for the shot are slim IMO. 

[RichMan]

13 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

 

Great point on keeping a bag of tricks @RichMan. Over use of any one technique won’t take long to figure out. That said... while not a giant in the net what I think is lost a lot of times when people talk about Quick’s flexibility is that he is 6’1”. So by no means is he small. 
What is also brought to mind, and I haven’t looked up a clip, but Vasy made a huge save in the playoffs this year with an incredible push while fully extended. That’s real freak stuff. Generating power at full extension. 
The technique being described here seems more theatrics and less like something you’d use all the time. “Hey look what I can do.” type stuff. Puck behind the net gets pushed to the top of the circle (or worse the slot) and you’re stuck in this position... chances of popping out of it and getting set for the shot are slim IMO. 

In the words of the Goat (Steven ''Keeks'' McKichan), ''as good as it may look, if you had to do such a save, chances are you were out of position to start with.''

I'm 6'2, lots of legs and if I could do a splits, chances are I could seal both posts no problem, but I know getting out of it would ackward as ...

[SaveByRichter35]

5 hours ago, RichMan said:

In the words of the Goat (Steven ''Keeks'' McKichan), ''as good as it may look, if you had to do such a save, chances are you were out of position to start with.''

I'm 6'2, lots of legs and if I could do a splits, chances are I could seal both posts no problem, but I know getting out of it would ackward as ...

Keeks is the man.  I attended a small beer league camp that he did here on Long Island a few years back in the GSBB days.

[creasecollector]

On 10/27/2020 at 8:44 PM, BadAngle41 said:

 

Great point on keeping a bag of tricks @RichMan. Over use of any one technique won’t take long to figure out. That said... while not a giant in the net what I think is lost a lot of times when people talk about Quick’s flexibility is that he is 6’1”. So by no means is he small. 
What is also brought to mind, and I haven’t looked up a clip, but Vasy made a huge save in the playoffs this year with an incredible push while fully extended. That’s real freak stuff. Generating power at full extension. 
The technique being described here seems more theatrics and less like something you’d use all the time. “Hey look what I can do.” type stuff. Puck behind the net gets pushed to the top of the circle (or worse the slot) and you’re stuck in this position... chances of popping out of it and getting set for the shot are slim IMO. 

I agree. And that's just it. If you can do it well, great, if not, you get burned. Same with any other technique.