Profiling your blades

[bunnyman666]

@TheGoalNet asked me to start a dedicated thread on this subject, so here goes...

I am giving a general primmer here. No suggestions are given as blade profiles can be very specific to the individual. 

Most goalie blades come out of the factory with a 30’ radius, which is pretty flat. Player blades come out with a 10’ or 12’, which is a lot rounder. 

One can get a profile that rounds the toe  for a faster feel on the ice, for example. One can profile to pitch the heel of the skate forward. One can spec multiple profiles on the same blade. Having the heel and toe radius changed to suit you can immensely help your performance. This is a procedure NOT reserved for fleet footed Connor McDavid, any longer.

On Step and Tydan steel, there is a centre mark in order to profile the runner from the centreline. This helps not only to find the centre of the blade and skate, but helps to find the centre of  the blade so the skate can be profiled out of the cowling or holder. 

A profile should be done with the first time a pair of skates is sharpened, for certain. If you like the stock profile, this step will essentially make certain both blades are uniform, as manufacturing can make the profiles of each blade vary.  Depending on how your skates are sharpened, this should be refreshed every ten sharpenings. Some will say more, others will say less. The point is that the profile will migrate over time depending on how they are sharpened. Have you ever noticed that a skate sharpener who does it by hand can run twenty passes on one skate and fifteen on the other? A skate machine tends to retain the profile better. Some times the toes and heels get over-rounded over time when sharpened by hand, essentially shortening the flat blade length.  One can get an older pair of runners profiled; sometimes that is a fantastic idea, especially if you find your skates feel totally different than when you first had them.

With the advent of goalie skate runners using one length for four half sizes of skates, having your skates profiled to fit you is more important. 

I recommend having your skates profiled by a sharpener who uses a ProSharp machine. Yes- this can be done by hand, but the ProSharp is computer controlled. Yes- the old way by hand works very well IF the person profiling has ample experience profiling blades. ProSharp has several templates for goalie profiles.

Anyone use a profile that made a night and day difference compared to before you had it done?

[TheGoalNet]

When you are talking radius above, you are referring to arc from toe to heel?

If I like my blades to feel long and flat, is that something that can be accommodated?

[bunnyman666]

3 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

When you are talking radius above, you are referring to arc from toe to heel?

If I like my blades to feel long and flat, is that something that can be accommodated?

Correct.

Definitely. So many times, a person who sharpens mainly player steel rounds the hell out of the toes and heels, effectively shortening the radius and they rocker the bottom edge. 

A guy I would talk to is J Bouciaut  (I think that’s his name) on Modsquadhockey.com. He offers a profiling service through his pro shoppe. He was one of the super good guys with Total Hockey.  Monty there also offers a coating service for any steel that is far superior to the DLC used on Step Black steel. I never have to wipe off the burrs. Bob at Noicing Sports offers profiling, as well. There are several goalie-specific goalie profiles. My next steel is getting a profile. My Sparx kept the stock profile nice and flat. A machine sharpener like a Sparx or ProSharp helps maintain your profile. My steel is as flat as the day it started thanks to my Sparx.

I always had my player steel profiled, ever since Juniors. Playing on a Jr.A team that was affiliated with an NHL team got me that privilege, and that was in the ‘80s! I never had goalie steel profiled until I had that crappy stock concave Vaughn steel. That was brutal, and getting a flat edge damned near destroyed its useful life! 

[TheGoalNet]

Anyone get their blades profiled? Anyone have some "average joe goalie" perspective to add on performance?

[BadAngle41]

11 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Anyone get their blades profiled? Anyone have some "average joe goalie" perspective to add on performance?

I had No Icing Sports out in NH put a profile on my steels this summer... nothing crazy... 

Combination Radius: 20/32' Goalie
Pitch: Medium Forward
Hollows: 7/16"
Sharpening Options: Blade Matching

It's not a drastic change but the smaller radius up front combined with the medium pitch forward does feel like it has given me more agility... either that or simply a strong placebo effect. Either way I'm happy with it. When pivoting I no longer sensed that I was fighting the front half of my steel... far less resistance on those quick turns. What I found most surprising though was how... given the pitch and combo radius... I felt I had significantly better hinge control when in RVH. The outer leg seemed to glide in a nice arc almost effortlessly... like it wanted to do exactly that.

I sent off my LS5G steels first to get them dialed in... then once I was happy with the profile I sent both sets of my Tydans in for the same treatment. Between the new profile and the ice conditions I typically play on I ended up going with a deeper hollow than I had been using before (1/2" to 7/16" now) so a minor tweak there as well.

[Telfo]

I have a 15/20/28 triple combo radius on my steel right now and its perfect.  I kept it at a neutral pitch since my skates(bauer 2x) already have a minor pitch forward(though feels slightly less than my old true two piece skates).  I tried out the 10/15/25 combo radius a while back and it is REALLY aggressive and I honestly loved it, I am just not currently in good enough shape to handle it.  May try again in the near future.

I have tried the goalie SAM profile in the past and hated it.  I think it caters towards less experienced skaters to help with lateral movement though.

[Puckstopper]

I just received two sets of LS5G steel back from noicing sports.  I had previously used their 24'-30' dual combo radius and loved the increase in agility I felt when moving behind the net to stop dump-in's etc so I had one set done with that combo.   For the other set I selected a triple radius (15/20/28)  to see if I could feel the difference.    Tonight will be my first game in my new True/Vertexx combo, so I'll report back after on how the triple felt.

I've also tried the Goalie SAM radius on my Tydan blades and a 17/30 from nocing on some older Step Steel.   Neither of those worked nearly as well for me as the 24/30 radius did.  

Telfo, I'd agree.  Lateral movement was good with Goalie SAM, but actual skating was not as easy as other custom radii I've tried out.  Still, SAM was better than the one game I played in the stock True radius before my replacement steel/holders. 

[Telfo]

13 minutes ago, Puckstopper said:

I just received two sets of LS5G steel back from noicing sports.  I had previously used their 24'-30' dual combo radius and loved the increase in agility I felt when moving behind the net to stop dump-in's etc so I had one set done with that combo.   For the other set I selected a triple radius (15/20/28)  to see if I could feel the difference.    Tonight will be my first game in my new True/Vertexx combo, so I'll report back after on how the triple felt.

I've also tried the Goalie SAM radius on my Tydan blades and a 17/30 from nocing on some older Step Steel.   Neither of those worked nearly as well for me as the 24/30 radius did.  

Telfo, I'd agree.  Lateral movement was good with Goalie SAM, but actual skating was not as easy as other custom radii I've tried out.  Still, SAM was better than the one game I played in the stock True radius before my replacement steel/holders. 

I really like the 15/20/28.  The back part of it does feel like it drags a bit more than I would like, but that may just be me getting used to it.  I will probably get a second set of steel sometime soon and do 10/15/25 again on that one.

[benner33]

13 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Anyone get their blades profiled? Anyone have some "average joe goalie" perspective to add on performance?

Average Joe at best here
 

I just mailed mine in to the near by HS that I got an extra set of Graf runners from. If their profiling is as good as the basic 1/2” I got on my other runners I’ll be happy. 
 

Went with the tech’s suggestion of a [Goalie SAM 10’ - 50mm - 27’] profile. 
 

https://www.bayareahockeyrepair.com/product/mail-in-skate-profiling-loose-steel-only-pair/

Also trying out a FBV 100/50 sharpening. 
 

Once I give them a skate I’ll update y’all with the results. 

[benner33]

1 hour ago, Telfo said:

I have a 15/20/28 triple combo radius on my steel right now and its perfect.  I kept it at a neutral pitch since my skates(bauer 2x) already have a minor pitch forward(though feels slightly less than my old true two piece skates).  I tried out the 10/15/25 combo radius a while back and it is REALLY aggressive and I honestly loved it, I am just not currently in good enough shape to handle it.  May try again in the near future.

I have tried the goalie SAM profile in the past and hated it.  I think it caters towards less experienced skaters to help with lateral movement though.

Interesting. I’ve never had blades profiled and figured the sam would be a good starting place. Maybe I’ll try the other combos on my other steel to see if I feel the same. 

[TheGoalNet]

Info from @Goalie Heaven

That is a pretty long answer. For players it can be position specific forward profile (usually leaning more towards the toes) defensive profile usually leaning a bit more towards the heel for backwards skating, rocketing is basically making the blade have more of a smiley face look ) for better agility at cost of straight line speed due to less blade contact. Different companies have different strategies for “the best profile”. Cag1 has a system where you can dial in exactly how much blade you want in contact down to the mm, where you want it to start and where you want it to stop. For instance I have a cag profile on my player and on my old goalie skates. The player is a custom one that we worked on over the course of a few years and found that a lot of guys really like it. It’s called the 35-75 it starts out 35 mm from the toe for 75mm. Great for goalies that want to play player. It feels a lot like a goalie skate but with a bit of a rocker at the toes and heels to keep you from

Turning like a Mac truck. In the context that you will likely find helpful (goalies) it is much the same cag does offer profiles which help guys tune in how much blade they want on the ice but pro sharp has pre made combo profiles that are made to maximize performance throughout the stride pitching you in the most advantageous way to give you performance in skating, stopping, turning and lateral pushes.

my follow up question:

That 60-120 is good for goalie? How will they feel differently than stock?

their response:

I find it pitches you a bit more forward but you feel like you have more bite. I found it was pretty good for coming around the back of the net as well

[Telfo]

1 hour ago, benner33 said:

Interesting. I’ve never had blades profiled and figured the sam would be a good starting place. Maybe I’ll try the other combos on my other steel to see if I feel the same. 

A lot of people really like the sam profile. I think it's just a love it or hate it type thing.

[benner33]

I’m still figuring out what works best so seems like a place to start. Getting a sharpening by someone who knows / cares had enough of an impact to me that I’m interested to see what it does

[DL42]

I use a 80/160  which is CAG, tired some other ones like SAM and and 30' and hated it.

Those designer profiles is for the companies to sell more to equipment shops, true craftsmen can profile it anyway u want which most can't do.

Go ask the shop if they can do CAG XX/XX , 99% of them can't, they can only do radius or whatever template they have.

cag puts a flat spot in the middle of the blade, where the first number is how much is on the front half of center and the second is total flatness.

60/120 has zero pitich and has 60mm in front of center and 60 on back of center.  And yes That is what Johanthan Quick uses, 

CAG profile is also use by Cam ward 70/140 or was, kevin weeks with a slight pinich forward 85/165.

This give us the strongest push and sharpest edge as it is not just one point  vs radius.

[TheGoalNet]

6 minutes ago, DL42 said:

I use a 80/160  which is CAG, tired some other ones like SAM and and 30' and hated it.

Those designer profiles is for the companies to sell more to equipment shops, true craftsmen can profile it anyway u want which most can't do.

Go ask the shop if they can do CAG XX/XX , 99% of them can't, they can only do radius or whatever template they have.

cag puts a flat spot in the middle of the blade, where the first number is how much is on the front half of center and the second is total flatness.

60/120 has zero pitich and has 60mm in front of center and 60 on back of center.  And yes That is what Johanthan Quick uses, 

CAG profile is also use by Cam ward 70/140 or was, kevin weeks with a slight pinich forward 85/165.

This give us the strongest push and sharpest edge as it is not just one point  vs radius.

Can you put some of this more simple terms? You have some great info here, but I don’t follow 100% and would like to learn more. I’m leaning toward buying another set of steel and testing this 

[SaveByRichter35]

For several years I used whatever the stock profile is for Step.  I think it was 30'?  Sometime last year my sharpener finally succeeded in convincing me to let him profile my skates.  I wish I would have listened to him sooner.  He gave me a 26' radius and man was it such an improvement.  He does everything by hand.  He was the Islander's EQM  through their 80s dynasty so he is pretty awesome at what he does.

[benner33]

I’d love to hear exactly what it was. Making a list of some profiles to try. 
 

The CAG 80/160 (and others mentioned) sound worth a try too. 

[CJ Boiss]

I'm getting a new set of Step Steels through a proshop at one of the rinks I play at, and they're giving me the option of getting them profiled. Never had my blades profiled before, on my goalie or player skates, so I'm not really sure what to do with it.

[bunnyman666]

10 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

For several years I used whatever the stock profile is for Step.  I think it was 30'?  Sometime last year my sharpener finally succeeded in convincing me to let him profile my skates.  I wish I would have listened to him sooner.  He gave me a 26' radius and man was it such an improvement.  He does everything by hand.  He was the Islander's EQM  through their 80s dynasty so he is pretty awesome at what he does.

A guy who does it by hand and does it well is hard to come by. But the old trainer/EQ guys knew what they were doing. He probably never turned any of your goal steels into bananas, which is my BIGGEST pet peeve of what many sharpeners who don’t pay attention and sharpen goalie steel like player steel. 

Many of the new generation pro EQ guys/trainers (many were both) order pre-profiled steel, now. Tydan offers that option, and advertises the number of NHL teams that use pre-profiled steel. NHL teams are using Sparx machines a fair bit. They are dependable and retain your profile. This only means one thing: guys like the guy you use are a dying breed, and it’s a damned shame.

[SaveByRichter35]

Yea I was pretty fortunate to find him because all of the rinks around me are awful at sharpening skates. 

[coopaloop1234]

14 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

For several years I used whatever the stock profile is for Step.  I think it was 30'?  Sometime last year my sharpener finally succeeded in convincing me to let him profile my skates.  I wish I would have listened to him sooner.  He gave me a 26' radius and man was it such an improvement.  He does everything by hand.  He was the Islander's EQM  through their 80s dynasty so he is pretty awesome at what he does.

Ah the equipment manger of a true New York franchise.

[bunnyman666]

15 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Yea I was pretty fortunate to find him because all of the rinks around me are awful at sharpening skates. 

I heard the former EQ manager of the Colorado Avalanche has become local to me at an Ace hardware. I may check that out.

[pgeorgan]

Going to be getting a standard SAM profile in a couple days (whatever the default is, 10-55-27/28?), as soon as my new steel arrives. I haven't found a lot of feedback on this online, so we will see. 

Currently at a 28' with 1mm forward pitch on Bauer 1s', 7/16" ROH. I like to plant my feet and stay very still until I need to explode left or right, maybe a bit like a Quick or Mrazek, hence I like the extra bite from deeper edges. 

 I also play out on Vapor 1x 2.0's. with a Quad XS (Edit: switched to Quad 0, recently) with 0.5mm forward pitch (added to the default pitch for whatever this profile comes with), 1/2" ROH.

As I'm proficient on both player and goalie skates, hopefully I can provide some good feedback to others that might be looking to do the same. 

Played a bit of college and still play against ex-college guys, so hopefully I can give a more technical review. If nothing else changes (though I have a feeling it will, for the better), at a minimum I expect to be able to drop a 1/16 flatter in ROH, as I did when I switched to a Quad profile on my player skates. 

[pgeorgan]

On 10/10/2019 at 8:19 PM, DL42 said:

I use a 80/160  which is CAG, tired some other ones like SAM and and 30' and hated it.

Those designer profiles is for the companies to sell more to equipment shops, true craftsmen can profile it anyway u want which most can't do.

Go ask the shop if they can do CAG XX/XX , 99% of them can't, they can only do radius or whatever template they have.

cag puts a flat spot in the middle of the blade, where the first number is how much is on the front half of center and the second is total flatness.

60/120 has zero pitich and has 60mm in front of center and 60 on back of center.  And yes That is what Johanthan Quick uses, 

CAG profile is also use by Cam ward 70/140 or was, kevin weeks with a slight pinich forward 85/165.

This give us the strongest push and sharpest edge as it is not just one point  vs radius.

CAG and SAM are the same thing. Both have flat spots in the middle, so not sure the equivalency of an 80/160 vs a SAM 10-50mm-27 profile, but flat is flat. Come to think of it, I think the "60mm" flat spot you speak of is the same as the middle number of the SAM Profile. In the example I give, there'd be a 50mm flat spot. Here's a reference, appearing to be based off of skate size.

In other words, identical, just slightly different nomenclature and marketed as "proprietary". You need a CAG(branded) machine or else you need ProSharp(branded) machine, but its the same end result. 

P.S. - Technically, ProSharp is newer.

[DL42]

7 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

CAG and SAM are the same thing. .....

complete NO, NO and NO. 

totally diff.  just because it has a flat spot doesnt mean they are same.

SAM is a templete that prosharp sell to the store and the store push to the customers to get extra revenue to profile.

a real shop would be able to change the front /back or middle profile of the blade. it funny how they would recommend SAM to any goalie regardless of skill, weight or height.

CAG is just a flat spot across the blade, more of a name but most people use the term like Kleenex for tissue or xerox for copies.

Quote

" I like to plant my feet and stay very still until I need to explode left or right, maybe a bit like a Quick or Mrazek, hence I like the extra bite from deeper edges. "

if u want to be like QUICK then u want CAG on skate not SAM. Quick is running a 60/120 CAG