Switch to stiff pads?

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

Need some help deciding if I should switch to stiffer pads! For some background, I use Vaughn now and like them but would switch if something else seemed better. I like extremely tight strapping so that is important as well.

[Mike24]

I’d say that if you like the softer pads stick with them.  I could be wrong but if you prefer tighter strapping a softer pad may be best.  

[Chenner29]

2 hours ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

Need some help deciding if I should switch to stiffer pads! For some background, I use Vaughn now and like them but would switch if something else seemed better. I like extremely tight strapping so that is important as well.

IF you should is not the same as WHY you should.

Why do YOU want to switch?

[thebigm]

how's your flexibility?

Stiff pads vary from maker I am wearing a Brina's Optik2 Mac core pad and I don't find it that stiff.  It isn't as stiff as the ultrasonic.  I find it personally the best balance between stiff and soft.

 

I also have the Optik 2 pad in a flex and I find they stand taller and as they only bend when you push on them.  I also they don't 

[ZeroGravitas]

Why is there no poll option for "Maybe"?

[GoalieNut]

4 hours ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

Need some help deciding if I should switch to stiffer pads! For some background, I use Vaughn now and like them but would switch if something else seemed better. I like extremely tight strapping so that is important as well.

I've done it and did not like it.  Only squishy/soft pads for me!

[PAW the OX]

When looking at switching from soft to stiff are you consider boot flexibility?  Thigh flexibility?

Personally I would say boot flexibility is key as I like stiff pads but do not like stiff boots. 

I am am currently using 20.1 which are stiff pads.  Have used opt1k flx before that. And brown 2100 classic before that. 

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

3 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

IF you should is not the same as WHY you should.

Why do YOU want to switch?

I am flexible and I notice many flexible goalies except quick use stiffer pads. Stiffer pads are also the ones that kick rebounds out harder

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

On 1/25/2021 at 6:55 PM, PAW the OX said:

When looking at switching from soft to stiff are you consider boot flexibility?  Thigh flexibility?

Personally I would say boot flexibility is key as I like stiff pads but do not like stiff boots. 

I am am currently using 20.1 which are stiff pads.  Have used opt1k flx before that. And brown 2100 classic before that. 

I have a mid level flex in my boot now. Its broken in but I never really tried to break it in and tbh Its not something I care much about.

[ULTIMA]

When you say you are in "Vaughns", that doesn't help. Velocity? Epic? Vault? Ventus?

[mr_shifty1982]

Premier 2 is a good mix of stiff and medium, and you can probably find good deals on them. 

[Yzueblin]

With my gnetik 4 with a good slap shot from a elite kid of 16year old my rebound goes past the red line 

you have a soft pads with hard rebound 

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

3 hours ago, ULTIMA said:

When you say you are in "Vaughns", that doesn't help. Velocity? Epic? Vault? Ventus?

Pro V elite

[Puckstopper]

I've gone back and forth over the last few years.  I went from Gnetik 5.0's to Subzero3's.  Then went a little nuts and bought Eflex 4 and Warrior GT2's in the same year and am now in Axis and Warrior G5's.  Personally, even though I'm older, and much less flexible than I used to be, I very much prefer the feel of the modern stiff pad.  The soft boot on the G5 and Axis (and I'd suspect Optik as well) give you a lot of the soft pad feel, but the stiffer top still gives you extra juice on the rebounds. 

Since going on my buying spree I've loaned my pads out to a couple of other local beer leaguers that I know and trust and there has been one overwhelming favorite:  The Warrior G5.  Mine have the extra stiff core, but despite that no-one who used them felt that they were overly stiff or clumsy.   They're not the "best" at everything.  As an example I like the way the Axis (with a weave sliding surface) slide better, and the Axis kick out rebounds a little harder, but in terms of pads that make for an easy transition from one style to another, they won hands down.  I brought both Warrior sets to one stick and puck and let guys try them back to back (while I broke in my Axis stuff).  The feedback was that even though the GT2s were broken in and the G5s had only been used for about 10 hours, there just wasn't much difference in feel, but the G5's slid better and kicked out rebounds harder.  Only one guy who tried them out wasn't comfortable in them within the first 30 minutes, although I kind of think his "struggles" were an excuse to keep them an extra couple days since he ended up buying a SR+ pair.    One other advantage to the G5 is the ability to run the Velcro over or through the calf wrap for a loose or tight feel based on preference.   I'm definitely not saying they are the perfect pad for you specifically, but they're definitely my number one recommendation for people to try on when they come into the store I work at with the same question you're asking.

[BadAngle41]

Agreed with @Puckstopper on the stiffer pads (even though I too am older.) Soft boot break but stiffer in the thigh. 2X Pro actually worked quite nice... as do my current set of Axis. Both sets have to be worn somewhat loose... compared to my EF1 RetroFlexes... but you get used to it pretty quickly. I also wear a boot strap on Axis along with a lower elastic.

I think either Axis or 2X Pro would be a nice transition... a quasi midway point to something as stiff as say stock Ultra Sonic. At the end of the day though it's what works for you.

[Puckstopper]

^^ Good point.  You will not be able to crank a stiff pad down and expect it to work well.   But I didn't find much of an issue making that transition and now very much prefer a loose, open leg channel.

[Drew37]

I've personally gone back and forth on this between soft and hard.  V4 to P3, P3 to Heaton 10s, Heaton 10s to XLTs and x900s.  Now I am in SLRs and find it the perfect balance between stiff and soft.  Flexes when you need it but keeps its shape and gives out hot rebounds.  The strapping is great on it as well especially the professor strap so you can have the feeling of it being snug but still rotates like a dream.

[ULTIMA]

19 hours ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

Pro V elite

If you're playing well in them I don't see the practicality in switching to a different type. I always say never go against the grain.

[Chenner29]

On 1/25/2021 at 4:35 PM, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

I am flexible and I notice many flexible goalies except quick use stiffer pads. Stiffer pads are also the ones that kick rebounds out harder

I think it is important to note that every goalie getting paid to play (as well as the masses that "almost made it") have put in a ton of time and effort to get to that point. 

They're all flexible.

This echoes a sentiment that was expressed several years ago when Easton was still making player sticks.
"Eastons break all the time" - just watch Sportscenter and you'll see an Easton athlete snapping their one piece.
If you dived into the numbers, you'd see an overwhelming number of players were using Easton sticks. 
In the end, it had nothing to do with the quality or performance of the product, but in the sheer volume of players that were using the product. 

IMO, the goalies who grew up with a lot of coaching and play a highly technical game prefer the stiffer gear because over time, here will be less variance in how the pad behaves from the beginning to end of the gear's life cycle.

The athletic styled goalies that do barrel rolls and scorpion kicks (Hasek, Brodeur, Quick, etc) will trend towards the flexible gear.

Here's some random numbers to provide context:

• Assuming 30 shots a game and 60 starts, that's 1800 shots faced in a season assuming no pulls and no scrubbing in.
• NHL average save percent in 2019-2020 was .91 (source); you'll need 1638 saves to get there.
• To be one % better than average, a goalie would need to come up with 1656 saves (18 total in the year), basically one more save than everyone else every 3 games.
• You can see these are pretty small margins - but one more save every 3 games could mean another 20 wins/40 points in the standings
• I'd guess most guys are only in the league an average 10-15 years. They not only want to WIN, but to maximize their contract, particularly in their prime years.
• Yes, bad goals happen - but I can imagine a pro athlete whose livelihood is on the line would want to eliminate as much gear failure as possible.

[BadAngle41]

7 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

I think it is important to note that every goalie getting paid to play (as well as the masses that "almost made it") have put in a ton of time and effort to get to that point. 

They're all flexible.

This echoes a sentiment that was expressed several years ago when Easton was still making player sticks.
"Eastons break all the time" - just watch Sportscenter and you'll see an Easton athlete snapping their one piece.
If you dived into the numbers, you'd see an overwhelming number of players were using Easton sticks. 
In the end, it had nothing to do with the quality or performance of the product, but in the sheer volume of players that were using the product. 

IMO, the goalies who grew up with a lot of coaching and play a highly technical game prefer the stiffer gear because over time, here will be less variance in how the pad behaves from the beginning to end of the gear's life cycle.

The athletic styled goalies that do barrel rolls and scorpion kicks (Hasek, Brodeur, Quick, etc) will trend towards the flexible gear.

Here's some random numbers to provide context:

• Assuming 30 shots a game and 60 starts, that's 1800 shots faced in a season assuming no pulls and no scrubbing in.
• NHL average save percent in 2019-2020 was .91 (source); you'll need 1638 saves to get there.
• To be one % better than average, a goalie would need to come up with 1656 saves (18 total in the year), basically one more save than everyone else every 3 games.
• You can see these are pretty small margins - but one more save every 3 games could mean another 20 wins/40 points in the standings
• I'd guess most guys are only in the league an average 10-15 years. They not only want to WIN, but to maximize their contract, particularly in their prime years.
• Yes, bad goals happen - but I can imagine a pro athlete whose livelihood is on the line would want to eliminate as much gear failure as possible.

^^^^^^ Very much echo @Chenner29 on this too. Playing in beer league you see a lot of variation in not just age range but style employed... and inherently in both you have differing amounts of coaching that built those styles up. Whether that be because older guys just didn't get the coaching goalies do now... they started playing as an adult... or they are younger and have a certain amount of technique to fall back on... how each of them they play and the equipment that works best for them is across the spectrum (and in some cases a head scratchers for me.)

That said I did have a fair amount of coaching growing up... and consequently my movements and technique stay pretty consistent from game to game even today. (Although I'm certainly not signing up for what are likely much needed videos of myself in net to confirm or reject that thought.) A stiffer pad does lend itself to this style for sure. A more technical game usually reduces the variables at play when making a save... you're tracking well... depth and angle are working... so a lot less to think about and move when making a save. Essentially you're more in control of a play... taking away a shooter's options... and shots almost seem to funnel to you. As a result control of rebounds is increased and your equipment goes from being something that simply protects you... to a being a tool you use to keep the puck away from danger areas. 

On the other hand a couple goalies I love playing against didn't get the same goalie specific coaching growing up and ended up with more of the Hasek style of just stop the puck somehow (barrel rolls etc.) and they're both great at it!! One is in a set of Axis 1.9s that on occasion give him troublesome rebounds given his positioning not necessarily lending itself to readiness for the next shot. Granted 1.9 isn't as stiff as what I'm using... but you get the idea. The other uses some well worn V5s (I think) and while again positioning and save selection is very different that what I do... I think the softy pads actually help him because the rebounds for those "athletic" type saves don't kick out nearly as far and consequently he doesn't have to move as far to get something in the way of the puck. 

Of course this is all predicated on the skill of the players on the ice. The higher the skill the more important the decisions you make in style and equipment become. The problem with a lot of coaching is that to paraphrase Pasco Valana... "You train to stop the top 10% of shooters... not the bottom 90%." I find my technique and equipment seem to work in harmony best when I'm playing against more skilled players... and at lower levels (that at times seem to defy physics)... so much is out the window because shots and players aren't where they "should be." 

Long winded way of saying use what works for you and where you are.

[ThatCarGuy]

I switched from pretty well worn G4’s to G5s that got too soft for my taste after a few months and now to currently used 2s pros. I wasn’t sure I’d like the 2s pro but I’ve always wanted to try a bauer pad and 2x wasn’t really an option in the price range

[AdamL]

The thing I don't like about stiff pads is they seem to require being worn pretty loose to maintain that freedom of movement required to play the position.  I'm not tall and still have the old-school tendency to play on top of the crease most of the time, and having a boxy pad flopping around in front of me makes moving quickly and explosively more difficult, at least for me.  I don't want a floppy pad in the thigh rise, though, and I still want lively rebounds.

I just placed my order yesterday for a sort of franken-V9 setup.  Stock core in the shin/boot, stiff flex in the thigh rise (similar to the EFlex 4 above the knee), SLR2 knee stack, RRC strap, and boot strap, and a layer of carbon on the face like the SLR2 for as big of a rebound as they offer.  I also had them do some HD foams on the landing side, both on the core and the calf stabilizer.  Basically I wanted an SLR2 with a softer, less aggressive boot and a bit of a toe taper instead of the 90* taper on the SLR2, and this is where we ended up.  I'm hoping it'll give me the best of both, with a good solid seal above the knee and some nice pop to the rebounds, but also the reactive feeling of a traditional Velocity pad to allow me to move around the crease as quickly as I'm able.  

I think this kind of pad is what a lot of NHLers are moving to.  The number of guys wearing 12.2s already is kind of incredible, and I basically tried to spec the V9 version of that pad.  Had the 12.2s been available to order I'd probably have gone that route, but I think these will turn out great, plus I just love that V9 2-piece glove.  

[TheGoalNet]

I have still missed the why... Who cares what you see on TV. What is missing from your current pads? What needs to be better?

[Chenner29]

9 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

That said I did have a fair amount of coaching growing up... and consequently my movements and technique stay pretty consistent from game to game even today. (Although I'm certainly not signing up for what are likely much needed videos of myself in net to confirm or reject that thought.) A stiffer pad does lend itself to this style for sure. A more technical game usually reduces the variables at play when making a save... you're tracking well... depth and angle are working... so a lot less to think about and move when making a save. Essentially you're more in control of a play... taking away a shooter's options... and shots almost seem to funnel to you. As a result control of rebounds is increased and your equipment goes from being something that simply protects you... to a being a tool you use to keep the puck away from danger areas.

Also brings up a good point -

I had some training back in the early 00s, and have been getting some work with some coaches recently in 2020.

A lot of principles have changed, but one thing they teach you now is to manage your posts - "box control."

In the past, the focus was on "being big" - knees, hips, and shoulders stacked so you were tall in the butterfly, gloves and elbows tight to the body to eliminate holes.

These days, they teach a slight lean forward so you "wrap" around the puck with gloves flared forward - taking up even more net while still eliminating shots through the body.  Stiff, boxy gear obviously helps with this

 

Edit:

Also wanted to add, there's an interesting podcast out there called "Learn II Perform" (that's like number 2) run by a  former pro goalie named Braeden Ostepchuk.  In one episode, he interviews Zach Fucale and they talk about incremental advantages tied to life habits.

Paraphrasing here, but the idea is you are never going to feel 100% going into a game.  But if your nutrition is dialed, you can get a bit of a percentage boost.  Same with your warmup, pregame nap, pregame habits, the psychological/mindset stuff that goes on in the background..etc.  Obviously gear plays a part in that too.  Maybe the sum of all these habits can net you an extra 2% - but if that consistently makes you 2% better than everyone else, then that's a spot on the big team instead of down in the farm...or you're able to command a premium on your next contract...etc.

[Charlie T]

Unless you need new gear right now, the L12.2s seem like a great option that will have a lot of customization and the wait for customizer won't be too long.