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Calling all Graf Users: Graf/CCM Hybrid Help


BadAngle41
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2 hours ago, jeantodt said:

Toes are still in good shape?

 

I am worried about that toecap..

But I purchased bladeholders too

DSC_1219.JPG

It's the same toe cap Graf is using on their latest PeakSpeed Pro G model that is cowlingless... same one they've been using for years. Haven't taken a hit off one yet... but I don't have any concerns.

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10 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

It's the same toe cap Graf is using on their latest PeakSpeed Pro G model that is cowlingless... same one they've been using for years. Haven't taken a hit off one yet... but I don't have any concerns.

Do you remember taking any off the 2x? I remember 2, and they were some what painful 🤨😬

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On 10/15/2020 at 12:39 AM, mr_shifty1982 said:

Do you remember taking any off the 2x? I remember 2, and they were some what painful 🤨😬

Pretty sure I took a couple off the toe with not only 2X Pro but S190 as well... don't recall ever being painful by any means. Certainly felt different from having a cowling on. 

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Alright I am gonna chime in as I may have been one of the first few people to do it with a cowling less holder on a graf.

Speaking with the builder Shaun at Graf.  The toe caps haven't been changed in many years, but They are also have very thick toe caps.  I have taken some off the toes you know it hit you but doesn't hurt.

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UPDATE:

Following up on a post I split out into its own topic on Footbeds/Insoles... the Sole Active Medium with Met Pad is working out very well. They take up just the right amount of that additional volume the Graf toe box in particular affords over the Bauer... and provide more support for my higher arches.

image.thumb.png.55ebcf4e4cd0cdb8ca415126fe40c44a.png

In fact the Soles felt so good that last night I decided to try out the Active Thin pair I had picked up in my 2X Pro... just to see if they'd help out the pain I was having in them. While I felt the Met Pad was noticeable... and more comfortable than either the stock insoles or the SpeedPlates... the skates overall were still uncomfortable for me. About 30 min into the skate the balls of my feet and my toes were just sore. Ironically I played decent... but I think it's just to much pitch forward... maybe over tightening... maybe one of ten other things that are me and not the skate. 

Regardless... it's official... the Graf/CCM hybrids have taken over the skate hooks in the hockey closet... with the Bauers relegated to a box. Thanks to everyone who pitched in on the thread. The experiment proved worthwhile. 

As for the 2X Pros... I'll probably throw them up for sale along with the sets of Tydan Steels to cover the purchase of another set of Black StepSteels for the CCM holder.

 

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On 9/22/2020 at 8:04 PM, benner33 said:

I’m going to sell my Graf Pro G skates. I tried to find someone to put a new holder on them but I just can’t get used to them. Going back to new stock True 2 Piece instead. 

Mind elaborating?  I played in Graf Goaler Pros from my first competitive days in high school up until just a couple years ago when I switched to some CCM 6092s, honestly just because they were on clearance.  Aside from the improved lean angle I despise them in every way, from the fit of the boot to the profile of the blade making me feel like I'm completely stuck in the mud.

Considering either picking up a set of these G9035s or maybe going full modern and getting some Pro Gs.  Thanks!

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2 hours ago, AdamL said:

Mind elaborating?  I played in Graf Goaler Pros from my first competitive days in high school up until just a couple years ago when I switched to some CCM 6092s, honestly just because they were on clearance.  Aside from the improved lean angle I despise them in every way, from the fit of the boot to the profile of the blade making me feel like I'm completely stuck in the mud.

Considering either picking up a set of these G9035s or maybe going full modern and getting some Pro Gs.  Thanks!

Sure. Similar to you I wore Graf Goaler Pros a while back. Then transitioned towards cowlingless skates through Vertexx Holders on the Graf Boot... then straight up cowlingless with my first pair of Bauers (S190.) Looking to upgrade, I picked up 2X Pros. Both used the Vertexx Edge holder so the transition from one to the other was easy.

Worth noting is that I do suffer from Femoroacetabular Impingement with the left side having been "cleaned up" but leaving little to no labrum/cartilage and the right side likely needing it in the next couple of years. So I'm already in the hurt box there. The increased attack angle, while certainly having it's advantages... I felt was putting too much stress on my hips (and therefore my knees and ankles too) as well as getting a numbness/pain in the balls of my feet using the 2X Pro. So I wanted a boot that was stiffer than a traditional Graf... but more flex than my 2X Pro... and at the same time less forward pitch and height on the holder. 

@SaveByRichter35 had already done a mod with Graf and CCM's XSG holder and I was intrigued so I thought I'd try it. Turns out to be great. I get the best (for me) of all worlds. More neutral pitch being the most notable when first putting them on.

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17 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

Sure. Similar to you I wore Graf Goaler Pros a while back. Then transitioned towards cowlingless skates through Vertexx Holders on the Graf Boot... then straight up cowlingless with my first pair of Bauers (S190.) Looking to upgrade, I picked up 2X Pros. Both used the Vertexx Edge holder so the transition from one to the other was easy.

Worth noting is that I do suffer from Femoroacetabular Impingement with the left side having been "cleaned up" but leaving little to no labrum/cartilage and the right side likely needing it in the next couple of years. So I'm already in the hurt box there. The increased attack angle, while certainly having it's advantages... I felt was putting too much stress on my hips (and therefore my knees and ankles too) as well as getting a numbness/pain in the balls of my feet using the 2X Pro. So I wanted a boot that was stiffer than a traditional Graf... but more flex than my 2X Pro... and at the same time less forward pitch and height on the holder. 

@SaveByRichter35 had already done a mod with Graf and CCM's XSG holder and I was intrigued so I thought I'd try it. Turns out to be great. I get the best (for me) of all worlds. More neutral pitch being the most notable when first putting them on.

Thanks!  I was actually asking @benner33 why he preferred the True 2-piece skates to the Graf Pro Gs, but that's really helpful.

I'm in a relatively similar situation, although maybe not quite as bad yet.  For the past couple years I've been dealing with some hip pain on my left side, and I worry going with a taller skate will only make that worse.  I've had some on-and-off success with myofascial release therapy and dry needling, and a percussion massage gun has helped quite a lot too, but I've still never been back to 100%.  No MRI yet, but I imagine I have some structural issues brewing.  

I went ahead and bought a set of these G9035s, I'll probably just play in the cowling, but cool to see that I have options if I decide to go cowlingless.  

With regard to your choice of radius, do you know how that compares to the standard steel that comes with the Graf Cowlings and the Pro Goalie 3.0 SS steel that comes with the Pro Gs?  No idea what's on my CCM skates, but it's WAY flatter than the steel that was on my old Grafs.  Looks like the Pro G's come with a 30' radius, and maybe an even shorter radius farther in on the blades that what you've gone with in the XSG holders.  I never even knew the radius on some steel could be changed until I got these CCMs and wondered why I couldn't skate worth a damn anymore.  

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14 hours ago, AdamL said:

With regard to your choice of radius, do you know how that compares to the standard steel that comes with the Graf Cowlings and the Pro Goalie 3.0 SS steel that comes with the Pro Gs?  No idea what's on my CCM skates, but it's WAY flatter than the steel that was on my old Grafs.  Looks like the Pro G's come with a 30' radius, and maybe an even shorter radius farther in on the blades that what you've gone with in the XSG holders.  I never even knew the radius on some steel could be changed until I got these CCMs and wondered why I couldn't skate worth a damn anymore.  

Your old Grafs probably got rounded out after so many years of sharpenings

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12 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

Your old Grafs probably got rounded out after so many years of sharpenings

Quite possible. I’m excited to see how these G9035s play in the cowlings versus my CCMs. At the very least they should be way more comfortable and have a tighter fit in the heel, which I desperately need. If I still have to get the steel radiused (if that’s a word 😂), so be it.

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On 10/29/2020 at 12:57 PM, AdamL said:

Quite possible. I’m excited to see how these G9035s play in the cowlings versus my CCMs. At the very least they should be way more comfortable and have a tighter fit in the heel, which I desperately need. If I still have to get the steel radiused (if that’s a word 😂), so be it.

Whelp, the G9035s arrived today.  I received the wrong size and width, unfortunately, so hopefully I can get that resolved quickly.  I took a quick measurement of the steel on the Grafs versus the CCMs and while it's tough to tell how much of a difference there might be in radius, the steel on the CCMs is a full inch longer from point to point.  The radius on the Grafs does seem like it's smaller too, they rock back and forth more easily on my workbench than the CCMs do even after several dozen sharpenings.

Lean angle seems about identical.  I certainly wish I would've just bought these from the start.  Goes to show you should just buy exactly what you want up front rather than cheap out and try to pick up something else on clearance.

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19 hours ago, AdamL said:

Whelp, the G9035s arrived today.  I received the wrong size and width, unfortunately, so hopefully I can get that resolved quickly.  I took a quick measurement of the steel on the Grafs versus the CCMs and while it's tough to tell how much of a difference there might be in radius, the steel on the CCMs is a full inch longer from point to point.  The radius on the Grafs does seem like it's smaller too, they rock back and forth more easily on my workbench than the CCMs do even after several dozen sharpenings.

Lean angle seems about identical.  I certainly wish I would've just bought these from the start.  Goes to show you should just buy exactly what you want up front rather than cheap out and try to pick up something else on clearance.

I noticed the CCM steel being longer as well... actually works out well in that with the reduced height the additional steel gives you more material to use when toe pushing. Super happy with the change.

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On 11/2/2020 at 3:47 PM, AdamL said:

Whelp, the G9035s arrived today.  I received the wrong size and width, unfortunately, so hopefully I can get that resolved quickly.  I took a quick measurement of the steel on the Grafs versus the CCMs and while it's tough to tell how much of a difference there might be in radius, the steel on the CCMs is a full inch longer from point to point.  The radius on the Grafs does seem like it's smaller too, they rock back and forth more easily on my workbench than the CCMs do even after several dozen sharpenings.

Lean angle seems about identical.  I certainly wish I would've just bought these from the start.  Goes to show you should just buy exactly what you want up front rather than cheap out and try to pick up something else on clearance.

23 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

I noticed the CCM steel being longer as well... actually works out well in that with the reduced height the additional steel gives you more material to use when toe pushing. Super happy with the change.

Oh man that is something I never considered when making this switch.  I wonder what the difference would be between the Bauer Vertexx cowling steel and the CCM XSG steel.  I'll have to measure when I get home from work later.

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2 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Oh man that is something I never considered when making this switch.  I wonder what the difference would be between the Bauer Vertexx cowling steel and the CCM XSG steel.  I'll have to measure when I get home from work later.

Did very rudimentary measurement from tip to tip on and is of course subject to sharpenings etc. etc. etc...

image.png.53b76b46227ab2d8a051ed2220f3cede.png

I think what's important to note as well is that it appears that the added length (5mm) is almost entirely at the toe. 

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55 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

Did very rudimentary measurement from tip to tip on and is of course subject to sharpenings etc. etc. etc...

image.png.53b76b46227ab2d8a051ed2220f3cede.png

I think what's important to note as well is that it appears that the added length (5mm) is almost entirely at the toe. 

Vertexx cowling steel...not Vertexx Edge holder steel.  I am unsure if the measurements are the same or not.  

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On 11/4/2020 at 2:44 PM, BadAngle41 said:

Did very rudimentary measurement from tip to tip on and is of course subject to sharpenings etc. etc. etc...

image.png.53b76b46227ab2d8a051ed2220f3cede.png

I think what's important to note as well is that it appears that the added length (5mm) is almost entirely at the toe. 

Just the tip?

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Just wanted to add, I went ahead with the swap. I got to try them out last night, needless to say but way more stiffness than my Bauer x2.7 skates. Very responsive, but will take some time to get used to. Not sure if it is in my head but the skates felt even better once they were mounted to the new holders and out of the cowlings. Overall pretty happy with the result! 

21055A6B-6CBD-476A-818E-8931B80D048C.jpeg

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