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Calling all Graf Users: Graf/CCM Hybrid Help


BadAngle41

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19 hours ago, AdamL said:

Man it's crazy how low the heel looks with the stock Graf steel.  No wonder I feel like I have a hard time getting over the balls of my feet.

Yea they are pretty low! I've also found that Graf's profile always had a little more rocker to them, somewhere between a forward/defense blade and traditional goalie blade. Something that I personally liked, but when you're use to a flatter profile it can shift you to your heels and make you feel off balanced. Out of all the cowlings I've had, I liked the Grafs the best because of the profile and how solid they felt. 

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18 minutes ago, Bmats30 said:

Yea they are pretty low! I've also found that Graf's profile always had a little more rocker to them, somewhere between a forward/defense blade and traditional goalie blade. Something that I personally liked, but when you're use to a flatter profile it can shift you to your heels and make you feel off balanced. Out of all the cowlings I've had, I liked the Grafs the best because of the profile and how solid they felt. 

Totally.  When I was coming up my coach made the goaltenders do all of the regular skating drills with the forwards, and having runners with a profile closer to a player profile actually allowed me to do those drills pretty well.  And of course that means I absolutely cannot skate with a typical 30' goalie profile.  But I do need get rockered forward, and I bought some Step steel runners that I'm going to send out to noicing to get done.  We'll see how it goes!

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  • 3 months later...
On 10/12/2020 at 1:06 PM, BadAngle41 said:

Some comparables...

Weight: As expected... the size 7 Graf/XSG combo comes in at 913g... nearly identical to @mr_shifty1982's custom AS3s w/ 4mm steel (910g.)

Holder & Steel Height: Dropped .36" (9.23mm) at the heel and .16" (4.02mm) at the ball of my foot. In other words... the XSG holder is not only shorter but also much more neutral with only a .49" (12.40mm) drop compared to Vertexx Edge of .69" (17.61mm.) Steel height difference came in at a hair... so for the purpouses of this review I'm calling it a constant.

Boot: Despite the visual (could be the graphic or lack of cut out at the top) the 9035 is only .67" (17.00mm) taller than the 2X Pro... coming in right at the middle of the top eyelet on the Graf. With that... the 9035 does have 10 eyelets to the 2X Pro 9 eyelets.

Feel: While the 2X Pro does have a good heel lock... the 9035 feels much tighter... like a good solid hug around my heel and achilles. Hard to tell from the images below... but both boots do have a slight pitch forward at the heel. Squeeze test has them feeling nearly identical with only slightly more give at the top of the 9035. Tongue on the 9035 is VERY comfy with lots of added thickness. 

1st Skate Impressions...

I was lucky enough to have the game before mine be a forfeit so after the obligatory stretching I got dressed a little faster than usual so I could get on the ice before my game. Couldn't tell a difference in weight in spite of knowing it was a 136g from the 2X Pro. The more neutral pitch was apparent quickly though... and in a god way. Just felt like I wasn't using my toes to hold myself up. After a lap or two I did some butterfly slides and the slightly longer (measure TBD) steel of the stock Step Blacksteel felt great as well... like I could just get a touch more push off the toe than before. The Step steel had been profiled to the same 20'-32' Medium Pitch Forward found on my 2X Pro... not only for a constant to help compare... but because I just like the profile.

During play I really did feel like they were a great marriage between all of the benefits of cowlingless skates (weight, attack angle, etc.) but in a package that was something I was more accustomed to... largely due to the more neutral XSG holder. The 9035 boot does play more flexible but really only in the lean forward. I think that's almost entirely to do with the makeup of the tongue. It is MUCH more padded than the 2X Pro... so even when tied pretty tight... the added cushioning allows for more forward flex than the think felt and lace bit pad of the Bauer. Overall... that little bit of weight towards my heel and off my toes just felt really balanced. Going to give it a few more skates as "stock"... then maybe look into a new footbed that can provide more arch support without raising my heel.

Thanks again to @SaveByRichter35 for the EQM hookup... and to @mr_shifty1982 for the steels.

EQM work was top notch... bunch of coppers in the heel...

IMG_3212.thumb.JPEG.6a635c3b79884000b7f2ebe60922a46f.JPEG IMG_3213.thumb.JPEG.5680bc90e4e5603853b09dc4b9499740.JPEG

IMG_3214.thumb.JPEG.dba9e781c073d5fce8f6c00479ead21c.JPEG

Stock non-heat moldable Sidas footbed... has some arch support... but may need slightly more...

62411563303__8648DD4F-514E-4D50-8C96-48F28C296550.thumb.JPEG.c00950e34d7c79b8b3d2b9323cdf7cb7.JPEG

Heel Height Compare...

Compare_Height_Heel.thumb.JPEG.1afd8e27ec37c7b4140d2724bc7ed824.JPEG

Overall dimensional comparison...

Compare_Height_Side.thumb.JPEG.597e63d7ef6fe1a46c95b8b7e978c8bd.JPEG

9035 Tongue...

Compare_Tongue.thumb.JPEG.82872c5bce110f19d927f0da09202bce.JPEG

1st Skate...

IMG_3236.thumb.JPEG.88c9bd7c3cea66600691f1fa09e193c1.JPEG

The measurements from bottom of boot to floor on the modified Graf looks similar to when it’s in a cowling, at least at the back. The front area is lower on a cowling Graf, but looks a lot flatter with the new holder. 
 

Did you find the extra blade length easy to get used to? I just shaved my cowling like Carey Price, but I have a 2nd pair of Graf 9035, so I may try this next. 
 

Great review, thanks!

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On 3/9/2022 at 12:28 PM, Bmats30 said:

Took a few pics of spare parts to show some differences in height.  
9035s with first gen true two piece holder,G50s with newer graf cowling (uncut standard height steel, black graf cowlings with higher stock steel (also uncut),and DM1080 with graf two piece holder. True is a few mm higher than pro g holder, where as higher stock steel on the cowling is a few mm shorter than pro g. 

417CB91A-CC18-4CAA-82E4-6E6884A8CA32.thumb.jpeg.0f8b8f792cb8c7e54824ee665a8bf596.jpeg67AAF350-16D0-43DA-91DD-6609D0687DDC.thumb.jpeg.6011eae806dce7671afe2a24b4de8e45.jpeg73653BA9-D375-42FB-A6CC-5A9873448E9C.thumb.jpeg.0f6ad1e4eee2323164e57972bb429714.jpegEE1C8208-0FAD-42A2-B7FF-9AD31A5AA5F9.thumb.jpeg.59da6486380b468742847499012d3bbc.jpegD3DC1508-1F4A-4096-8BE8-CC212BE5FC00.thumb.jpeg.63cf3ea80b798551ca991972dd062cc5.jpeg42755A4D-D143-4FF8-955F-C39C92018222.thumb.jpeg.9ecf22d5c12257ed250b6f32bb2cd826.jpeg

Does anyone have comparison like this for Graf-on-cowling vs. Graf-on-CCM XSG holder?

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6 hours ago, Beez37 said:

The measurements from bottom of boot to floor on the modified Graf looks similar to when it’s in a cowling, at least at the back. The front area is lower on a cowling Graf, but looks a lot flatter with the new holder. 
 

Did you find the extra blade length easy to get used to? I just shaved my cowling like Carey Price, but I have a 2nd pair of Graf 9035, so I may try this next. 
 

Great review, thanks!

Yeah. The added length at the toe was nice. I'm a bit of a toe pusher so it gave me a touch more bite.

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5 hours ago, netminder said:

These are my current wheels. Significant pitch difference between the Vertexx I almost put on them, and the XSG type. XSG are the best holder/runners I've ever skated in, its all subjective though.skate1.thumb.jpg.a5efd95182c70c650ff5b59dbd98fcd0.jpgskate2.thumb.jpg.0502f52795654e9c9508c96e169524b5.jpg

My bad bud, sorry. I meant the Graf 9035 on cowling, vs the same boot on the XSG. Appreciate your feedback tho, it helps with another boot option. 

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On 12/18/2022 at 3:00 PM, Beez37 said:

It's interesting how your measurement comes in at around 73mm heel height, and @jeantodt comes in around 83mm?

image.png.3054a26e2eb8120e55f14e55413d82a0.png

Just measured mine again digital caliper and got 73.8mm... no idea where the extra 10mm is coming from. The outward facing camera on my phone is broken... but should have a new one by week's end. I can post a picture of mine with the measure.

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On 9/3/2022 at 11:29 PM, jeantodt said:

Sorry for late answer.. 

DSC_1894.JPG

Thanks bud. Could you please measure the front, mid-way along the attachement. Looking at pulling the trigger on the XSG holders soon and I’m looking at around 52mm at toe and 65mm at heel with the existing Graf cowlings. 

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