What’s in your pocket? (Gloves)

[IPv6Freely]

28 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

One goalie I know will ONLY have nylon cord. He admits he has to hang on and even admits that he has pop outs, but he KNOWS where the puck is. 

I admit that occasionally, I have lost track of the puck when it goes into a floating skate lace pocket, but I also know it isn’t coming out.

Mine is skate lace, but I guess my pocket is so large and soft that I don't see a benefit to a floating pocket. 

[coopaloop1234]

31 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

One goalie I know will ONLY have nylon cord. He admits he has to hang on and even admits that he has pop outs, but he KNOWS where the puck is.

Haven't had a single issue with my R/GT. I know my One55 had that issue though.

[TheGoalNet]

@coopaloop1234 @bunnyman666 - I can actually understand the need for the nylon lace. There is something to be said for feeling the puck like that.

That is kinda what I was saying earlier about the floating tee. It's very soft. It has it's pros and it has it's cons. To me it's like a stiff pad vs a soft one, all preference. 

[bunnyman666]

9 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

@coopaloop1234 @bunnyman666 - I can actually understand the need for the nylon lace. There is something to be said for feeling the puck like that.

That is kinda what I was saying earlier about the floating tee. It's very soft. It has it's pros and it has it's cons. To me it's like a stiff pad vs a soft one, all preference. 

I do, too. 

As we say: different strokes...

[jmw0097]

@bunnyman666 - Exactly

[SaveByRichter35]

Vaughn 5500 with skate lace and old spec triple T.  Pucks get lost in there haha.

[bunnyman666]

3 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Mine is skate lace, but I guess my pocket is so large and soft that I don't see a benefit to a floating pocket. 

I can see that.

Is it fair to say it is an aesthetic aversion? And I am not judging. You like what you like...

[TheGoalNet]

@SaveByRichter35 - We are totally due for that that to make a comeback, what’s old is new again 

[SnackDubs]

On 1/2/2018 at 4:27 AM, bunnyman666 said:

The Koho Swiss knee guard for me just does not merit the cash. People complain that they fall apart! And that carbon fibre is just a print...

Replaceable and washable components are what make me love the Factory guards.

Can you wash and replace components on the Vaughn neck guard? I ask because that is one of the key features for me. I had the rash that never went away years ago, so the ability to sanitise is BIG for me. 

I see what you’re saying about AA, but Dennis not AA, he is AAAA. I will NOT pay more than $500 for an off-shore pad. Bauer is selling an $1800 off-shore pad. To me, Bauer is -A for selling over-expensive Chinese crap.  

I will never buy another product from ccm or Bauer or any company overseas 

[IPv6Freely]

16 minutes ago, SnackDubs said:

I will never buy another product from ccm or Bauer or any company overseas 

I don’t get this mindset unless you’re seeing obvious QA problems

[TheGoalNet]

@IPv6Freely - I sorta of agree with that, but there is an ethical and/or moral side to it. 

If you won’t buy XXX skates because they are made in Tawain and you assume they’ll break, that’s silly. 

If you’d rather buy True skates over XXX because they’re Made in Canada and you want to support a company engaged in domestic  manufacturing, pretty reasonable view point. 

Or you can’t see paying $1800 for off shore pro pads when Passau or Simmons will make them here for 30% less, makes sense too... (I think that is @RichMan ‘s view) 

My day job is in and around the manufacturing world. I’ve probably visited every Fortune 100 company engaged in North American manufacturing or a 1st Tier supplier to them. I’m pretty well versed in offshoring and how companies can be competitive in North America vs developing nations. 

From my standpoint, it’s a global economy now. It makes sense to produce certain items in certain places. 

When I look at hockey equipment, I go performance first. Whenever there is a tie, I will always default to domestically made. That’s why I stopped wearing Lefebvre gear. I also try to point out pro level stuff that isnt made here in reviews. 

I believe manufacturing = stability 

[ruckus007]

^I agree. I don't see much issues with offshore gear. A company is there to make profits. That's just the way it is. If I sold a product and found  out I can get the same/similar quality of jobs done at a quarter of the manufacturing cost, then I'd do it. 

The problem isn't really the assembly. It's the MATERIALS that companies now commission to put in their products. 

(Styrofoam in the 1X glove cuff, countless broken CCM glove cuffs, nylon ripping prematurely in 1S chesties, etc). And then there are some things that are plain stupid (remember dimples people were bitching about on 1S pads? ended up just being the dimples from lace?). 

I had offshore Brian's pads and they were phenomenal. I've also had Made in Canada JRZ Bauer stuff that was GARBAGE. 

I strongly believe that a lot of companies now skimp out badly on the QUALITY of materials used in their gear. It REALLY IS to have us go back and buy more in a couple years. Why not? I'm not gonna quit hockey any time soon so I don't have a choice.

Also, pro gear doesn't not mean MORE DURABLE gear. I remember people complaining about how a lot of those pro stock goalie sticks will snap, break, chip, etc. etc. on GGSU. Well DUDE. Johnny Quick switches stick at LEAST once a period. He's only going to care about feel and performance. NOT DURABILITY.

All these pros go through multiples in 1 season. Schneider goes through 4-5 sets of pads alone because of how soft he wants them to be right from factory.

IT'S GONNA SETTLE AND SHRINK.

[RichMan]

In a nutshell, I just hate that a big brand will get their shit manufactured overseas at a fraction of what they used to and still have the gall to charge an arm and a leg for it onto the consumer. I know all the arguments about the cost of business and inflation rates and wages and marketing, blah blah. Not everyone's salary is in direct ascent with the cost of living.

[Moose75]

6 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Vaughn 5500 with skate lace and old spec triple T.  Pucks get lost in there haha.

One of these? Might have been ahead of its time. 

[Moose75]

I'm boring - single tee, whatever lace came in the glove. I've done skate lace before in other gloves, but I'm not too picky. Maybe I should try it on one of my XR gloves?

[IPv6Freely]

I’d like to try nylon cord but have never figured out exactly what it is to be able to buy some.

[ruckus007]

36 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

I’d like to try nylon cord but have never figured out exactly what it is to be able to buy some.

usually any outdoor camping/mountaineer shop would have some. I believe fabric stores like Michael's and Etsy will as well. 

[bunnyman666]

7 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

I don’t get this mindset unless you’re seeing obvious QA problems

It just better be cheap! I’ll buy offshore gear, but the price had BETTER reflect the cheap labour and materials.

[bunnyman666]

7 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

@IPv6Freely - I sorta of agree with that, but there is an ethical and/or moral side to it. 

If you won’t buy XXX skates because they are made in Tawain and you assume they’ll break, that’s silly. 

If you’d rather buy True skates over XXX because they’re Made in Canada and you want to support a company engaged in domestic  manufacturing, pretty reasonable view point. 

Or you can’t see paying $1800 for off shore pro pads when Passau or Simmons will make them here for 30% less, makes sense too... (I think that is @RichMan ‘s view) 

My day job is in and around the manufacturing world. I’ve probably visited every Fortune 100 company engaged in North American manufacturing or a 1st Tier supplier to them. I’m pretty well versed in offshoring and how companies can be competitive in North America vs developing nations. 

From my standpoint, it’s a global economy now. It makes sense to produce certain items in certain places. 

When I look at hockey equipment, I go performance first. Whenever there is a tie, I will always default to domestically made. That’s why I stopped wearing Lefebvre gear. I also try to point out pro level stuff that isnt made here in reviews. 

I believe manufacturing = stability 

I don’t have a problem with foreign made as long as the price Reflects the cheap labour. But it burns me up that they charge as much (if not more) than domestic.

[dreadlockgoalie]

2 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

I don’t have a problem with foreign made as long as the price Reflects the cheap labour. But it burns me up that they charge as much (if not more) than domestic.

I'd be curious to see if someone with industry inside knowledge knows if the margins have actually gone up with offshoring.  The value of the big hockey companies doesn't suggest they're really raking it in.

[bunnyman666]

22 hours ago, dreadlockgoalie said:

I'd be curious to see if someone with industry inside knowledge knows if the margins have actually gone up with offshoring.  The value of the big hockey companies doesn't suggest they're really raking it in.

They may not be raking it in, but they are saving on labour and material costs, as well as taking advantage of looser environmental protection laws. 

I have no problem buying an overseas guitar, as they are anywhere from 30-70% cheaper than an American equivalent. Get a good luthier on it, and it plays as good as any American guitar out of the box, if not better. Cheaper production methods like scarf-joint head stocks  actually make a more stable and durable instrument. 

If anything, the overseas production may allow a bit of a margin compared to North American produced.

[TheGoalNet]

@dreadlockgoalie - I believe some of the companies are "not racking it in" because of the following:

• Paying the athletes 
• General marketing costs 
• Inventory issues 
• R&D costs 
• Legal issues and lawsuits 

Again, I am ABSOLUTELY not defending off-shoring. I think all pro gear should be made here. But I am just explaining my understanding of the economics of it. 

[TheGoalNet]

9 hours ago, ruckus007 said:

^I agree. I don't see much issues with offshore gear. A company is there to make profits. That's just the way it is. If I sold a product and found  out I can get the same/similar quality of jobs done

at a quarter of the manufacturing cost, then I'd do it. 

The problem isn't really the assembly. It's the MATERIALS that companies now commission to put in their products. 

(Styrofoam in the 1X glove cuff, countless broken CCM glove cuffs, nylon ripping prematurely in 1S chesties, etc). And then there are some things that are plain stupid (remember dimples people were bitching about on 1S pads? ended up just being the dimples from lace?). 

I had offshore Brian's pads and they were phenomenal. I've also had Made in Canada JRZ Bauer stuff that was GARBAGE. 

I strongly believe that a lot of companies now, skimp out badly on the QUALITY of materials used in their gear. It REALLY IS to have us go back and buy more in a couple years. Why not? I'm not gonna quit hockey any time soon so I don't have a choice.

Also, pro gear doesn't not mean MORE DURABLE gear. I remember people complaining about how a lot of those pro stock goalie sticks will snap, break, chip, etc. etc. on GGSU. Well DUDE. Johnny Quick switches stick at LEAST once a period. He's only going to care about feel and performance. NOT DURABILITY.

All these pros go through multiples in 1 season. Schneider goes through 4-5 sets of pads alone because of how soft he wants them to be right from factory.

IT'S GONNA SETTLE AND SHRINK.

Great point here 

I think the one area that Pro Stock = safer is certain companies pro stock C&As. They are beefed up significantly vs retail. I also think that guys do not change C&As too often. 

These complaints are the strength and weakness GGSU. Because it's a younger audience with no filter, there is no hiding. If someone's product breaks, 30,000 goalies will hear about! However, I don't know that everyone on there is all that educated and there can be silly rumors or "group think" that results from it. 

[bunnyman666]

42 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Great point here 

I think the one area that Pro Stock = safer is certain companies pro stock C&As. They are beefed up significantly vs retail. I also think that guys do not change C&As too often. 

These complaints are the strength and weakness GGSU. Because it's a younger audience with no filter, there is no hiding. If someone's product breaks, 30,000 goalies will hear about! However, I don't know that everyone on there is all that educated and there can be silly rumors or "group think" that results from it. 

I had a pro-stock bike from one pro that was whippy as all get out and very soft in the bottom bracket. Chainstays flexed horrendously when going up hills.  

Two things I was told after riding this blokes bike:

1) I was 20# heavier than the pro who rode this bike, therefore it was *just* stiff enough for him (and not for me)

2) This bike was heavilly campaigned in hilly races; therefore it was already a noodle! 

This is what we don’t realise about pro’s equipment- it is usually purpose-made with certain characteristics enhanced. It is NOT made for a lifetime! 

[IPv6Freely]

Without having numbers to back it up, I still wonder if it's not so much that they're saving on costs so they make more money but rather that they're saving on costs so they don't have to increase the MSRP because otherwise it would have to go up due to various factors.